A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby theckhd » Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:28 pm

Hm... so chances are it's coded as 0.15*SP and either 0.5 or 0.51 as the AP coefficient. I'll try and mess with the fitting some more while holding the SP coefficient at 0.15 when I get some time.

<edit> I'm impatient. Same data as before, this time fitting (d2-0.15*sp) as a function of ap with a linear trendline:

Code: Select all
Linear model Poly1:
       f(x) = p1*x + p2
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       p1 =      0.5127  (0.4957, 0.5297)
       p2 =        4581  (4546, 4615)

Goodness of fit:
  SSE: 1.215e+004
  R-square: 0.9975
  Adjusted R-square: 0.9973
  RMSE: 33.24


So yeah, looks like 0.51*AP+0.15*SP is going to be our best fit.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby tlitp » Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:42 am

Xenix wrote:blocked crits

Teehee, ladies to the rescue. :lol:
You've managed to pull out 2 CBs in 153 crits, unlike Arianne here (0 in 156). Time to change the code, it seems.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby tlitp » Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:23 am

tlitp wrote:AS on secondary targets :
  • where : beta or PTR
  • spec : anything with 2/2 GrCr
  • gear : naked
  • target : a boss-level as primary target, and at least one lower-lvl dummy as secondary target
  • attack sequence : only CS/AS (with some J for mana), attacking the primary target from behind
  • goal : keep casting AS on the primary until you get at least two "miss" events

JotJ :
  • where : beta or PTR
  • spec : anything with 0/2 JotJ
  • gear : any, but having equipped a slow weapon (2.6+)
  • target : any low-lvl dummy
  • attack sequence : only J, rotating the seals
  • goal : three sets of 1 J cast (T/R/J; let Censure stack to 5 prior to testing T), and then 10 additional J casts (I)

These two are still standing. Appending...

JotW and haste :
  • where : beta or PTR
  • spec : anything with 3/3 JotP
  • gear : any
  • buffs : bring a shadow priest/balance druid/shaman friend
  • target : any low-lvl dummy
  • attack sequence : only J
  • goal : cast 10 J

Enchantments, first round :
  • spec : anything with 0/2 JotJ and 2/2 GrCr
  • gear : any, having your weapon enchanted with Windwalk or Landslide (the weapon itself must be slow, 2.6+)
  • target : any low-lvl dummy
  • seal : Insight
  • attack sequence : rotation of abilities, positioning yourself such as to avoid/minimize the occurrence of regular autoattacks
  • goal : cast each of the following (CS/HotR/SotR/AS/J) 150 times (respectively), stopping and dropping the corresponding ability after the first proc

Enchantments, second round :
  • if and only if the first round seems to indicate that J is unable to proc weapon enchantments, respec to 2/2 JotJ and then retest J alone


After these, we'll move on to trinket procs, as there are quite a few to test. Final note : if someone with a Rogue on the PTR has some spare time and wants to put it to good use, send a PM to me.
That much said, thanks for cooperation and Godspeed.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:30 am

Got a question, do you really need to rotate the seals, can it be 4 separate parses with a seal each?

Also, on the Boss lvl dummies I've found, they're too far apart from other dummies for AS to bounce off, at least the boss lvl dummies that are not being whacked by someone 24/7.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby tlitp » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:12 am

Klaudandus :
  • yes, separate logs would be fine too (I don't know why would you want to split a set of 13 casts, though)
  • not a problem, as there are no environmental hit/exp effects in 4.0 (the output itself is irrelevant)
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:30 am

tlitp wrote:Klaudandus :
  • yes, separate logs would be fine too (I don't know why would you want to split a set of 13 casts, though)
  • not a problem, as there are no environmental hit/exp effects in 4.0 (the output itself is irrelevant)


Well, Case#2 requires to use all 4 seals using a weapon with a 2.6 speed -- which is why I thought it would be only 4 parses. One for each seal. Unless I understanding something wrong.

Case #1, from what I understand, requires the AS to bounce of the Boss dummy and hit the lower dummies. Like I said, the dummies I've found that are normally left alone by everyone and their mother, are too far apart for AS to bounce off and hit a secondary target.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby theckhd » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:52 am

Klaudandus wrote:Case #1, from what I understand, requires the AS to bounce of the Boss dummy and hit the lower dummies. Like I said, the dummies I've found that are normally left alone by everyone and their mother, are too far apart for AS to bounce off and hit a secondary target.

He's looking for proc triggers and hit/miss events though, the damage is irrelevant. Hence, it doesn't matter if other people are hitting the targets.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby tlitp » Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:03 pm

AS "bouncing" : your understanding is correct, but the debuffs on either target (primary/secondary) are irrelevant. If you find one suitable primary/secondary couple, you can use them at discretion, even if they are hit by 20 players at once.
JotJ : switch to T (letting Censure stack), cast one J; switch to R, cast one J; switch to J, cast one J; switch to I, cast several J (even if J is able to proc seals, one cast may well be insufficient; I is PPM-based, not an automated cast).
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:00 pm

Understood, Let me start working on it right away.

Edit:

Weapon: http://www.wowhead.com/item=2522
Shield: http://www.wowhead.com/item=2451
AS Parse: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/mef6i6bqwx17io0v/
Code: Select all
Str 148
Agi 92
Sta 164
Int 101
Spi 103
AP 516
SP 179


A bit confused regarding the seal one, by the time I get to use Seal of Insight, the SoT stacks fall off.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby theckhd » Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:47 am

Thanks to everyone for their help so far. I'm now beginning to refine the level 85 modeling, which means I'll need a bunch of parses from beta. Here's what we need:


Note that I need this information from BETA servers, not from live. Live development is over.

What I need: Parses of all of our abilities at several AP/SP values. This includes Exorcism, HoWrath, each Seal/Judgement combo, etc.
How I need it:
  1. Find an isolated dummy with no debuffs. Multiple dummies are fine for HammerNova and Holy Wrath, as long as you remain in the same place and consistently hit the same number of dummies.
  2. Equip a particular gear set, ideally one with no procs to speak of and no set bonuses.
  3. Record and upload a parse containing 50-100+ casts of each ability, the more the better.
  4. Link the parse here or in the MATLAB thread, along with all of the following information (any parses that don't include this information are effectively useless to me):
    • AP
    • SP
    • Weapon tooltip damage (i.e. x-y)
    • Weapon tooltip speed (i.e. 2.6)
    • Weapon Name (so I can double-check that you haven't given me paper doll values)
    • Talent Spec
    • Glyphs
    • Dummy level
    • Beta Build #
  5. Repeat this process for several gear sets with widely varying AP/SP. Ideally I'd like one with low AP/SP, one with high AP / low SP, and one with low AP / high SP. Even better if you can equip items such that one of the stats is the same between parses (i.e. equip a bunch of INT gear to raise SP without changing AP at all).

Also, I believe tlitp still has some outstanding requests, if you have time try and finish those up first.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby tlitp » Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:16 am

Clarification : mechanical testing has priority, as Theck already pointed out. I would advise against going for quantitative analysis right now, as there may be other rounds of number-tweaking. Also, please note that we're more interested in prot-centric abilities; for the common (prot/ret) ones we have good support from EJ testers/theorycrafters.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby theckhd » Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:00 am

Bumping for both mechanical testing and numbers parses. If nobody else gets to the mechanical stuff, I'll try to do some of it tonight.

Even though numbers may change in the next few weeks, it would be nice to verify which of the current models are correct and which need work. I suspect most of the EJ ones are accurate and will be verified well enough for our purposes with a single parse.

We will, of course, have to re-verify everything once everything goes live, but I suspect most people will be busy leveling at that point, and I think having preliminary results from beta that are mostly accurate is preferable to having nothing at all.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Arianne » Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:13 pm

AS on secondary targets :
  • where : PTR
  • spec : anything with 2/2 GrCr (0/31/0 - No Imp HoJ, no Hallowed Ground, no Reckoning, no Divine Guardian)
  • gear : naked, plus Dalaran Sword plus Kite Shield
  • target : Exodar boss-level as primary target, and at least one lower-lvl dummy as secondary target
  • attack sequence : only CS/AS (with some J for mana), attacking the primary target from behind
  • goal : keep casting AS on the primary until you get at least two "miss" events

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1vssd5x8cqdn0jt8/

JotJ :
  • where : PTR
  • spec : anything with 0/2 JotJ
  • gear : any, but having equipped a slow weapon (2.6+)
  • target : any low-lvl dummy
  • attack sequence : only J, rotating the seals
  • goal : three sets of 1 J cast (T/R/J; let Censure stack to 5 prior to testing T), and then 10 additional J casts (I)

Does level 60 count as low-level?
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/qi5c8yny3z9nb9e2/
Standing behind level 60 dummy in melee range. Naked with Dalaran Sword and Kite Shield. Waited for melee hit to refresh Censure stack, then rotated to R/J.

JotW and haste :
  • where : PTR
  • spec : anything with 3/3 JotP (3/33/0 no Imp HoJ, no Hallowed Ground, no Divine Guardian)
  • gear : any
  • buffs : balance druid
  • target : any low-lvl dummy - level 60 exodar
  • attack sequence : only J
  • goal : cast 10 J

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/ti55ih8zzjxvf0fp/ SoT Crescent Axe (2.6)
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8hfvedmhbknvslqf/ SoT Dalaran Sword
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/uia40fdn05jvboci/ SoR Crescent Axe
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/ujn600nvugq0tcgd/ SoJ Crescent Axe
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8pt3fydrgkn4mxut/ SoI Crescent Axe

Enchants don't appear to be available on the PTR. Sorry, I don't have beta access. Let me know if there's further things I can do on the PTR.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby theckhd » Mon Nov 15, 2010 5:07 pm

1st test indicates that AS hits or misses on each target independently (heroic is the primary target):
Code: Select all
[14:45:09.843] Terilyn Avenger's Shield Master's Training Dummy 1 (O: 3115)
[14:45:10.468] Terilyn Avenger's Shield Heroic Training Dummy Miss
[14:45:11.390] Terilyn Avenger's Shield Grandmaster's Training Dummy Miss


2nd test seems to indicate that Judgement doesn't proc Seal of Truth, thought it's hard to tell because you were hitting the boss at the time. However, if you isolate Judgement and Seal of Truth, you can find examples like this:
Code: Select all
[15:16:22.375] Terilyn Seal of Truth Expert's Training Dummy 1 (O: 32)
[15:16:23.968] Terilyn casts Judgement on Expert's Training Dummy
[15:16:24.953] Terilyn Seal of Truth Expert's Training Dummy 1 (O: 31)


No SoT proc within a 2 second-window around Judgement.

I haven't had time to sift through the rest of that log to see if SoR/SoJ/SoI work the same way.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby theckhd » Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:21 pm

My own JotJ testing on beta: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/eq09 ... keis3/log/

First, I tested each seal while unspecced. As expected, none of them proc seals without a spec. SoI just returns the 15% mana component described in the tooltip.

I then specced 7 points into prot to get JotJ. JotJ definitely procs SoT:
Code: Select all
[19:07:04.858] Theckpretwo Censure Training Dummy 1 (O: 951)
[19:07:07.563] Theckpretwo Censure Training Dummy 1 (O: 951)
[19:07:07.646] Theckpretwo casts Judgement on Training Dummy
[19:07:08.080] Theckpretwo Judgement of Truth Training Dummy 1 (O: 2419)
[19:07:08.247] Theckpretwo gains 703 mana from Theckpretwo's Judgements of the Wise
[19:07:08.247] Theckpretwo's Judgements of the Wise fades
[19:07:08.484] Theckpretwo gains Judgements of the Wise from Theckpretwo
[19:07:08.866] Training Dummy's Judgements of the Just is refreshed by Theckpretwo
[19:07:08.866] Theckpretwo Seal of Truth Training Dummy 1 (O: 402)
[19:07:09.283] Theckpretwo gains 189 mana from Theckpretwo's Judgements of the Wise
[19:07:10.250] Theckpretwo Censure Training Dummy 1 (O: 951)
[19:07:12.939] Theckpretwo Censure Training Dummy 1 (O: 951)


Similarly for SoR:
Code: Select all
[19:07:59.555] Theckpretwo casts Judgement on Training Dummy
[19:08:00.240] Theckpretwo Judgement of Righteousness Training Dummy 1 (O: 2149)
[19:08:00.644] Theckpretwo gains Judgements of the Wise from Theckpretwo
[19:08:00.741] Training Dummy's Judgements of the Just is refreshed by Theckpretwo
[19:08:00.825] Theckpretwo Seal of Righteousness Training Dummy 1 (O: 372)


Interestingly, neither SoI or SoJ proc off of JotJ.
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