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Taunts unable to miss since 4.01

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Taunts unable to miss since 4.01

Postby Rhiannon » Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:03 am

More of a missing the memo public service announcement, as I'm fairly sure it is the case, but looks like taunts can't miss any more. As far as I know there's been no patchnote or blue post confirming this to be the case for sure, but threads on the wow forums, mana flask and tankspot all seem to suggest the same thing, as well as a hundred taunts on a dummy with 1% hit.

Not seen this being mentioned here before, disregard if it has.
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Re: Taunts unable to miss since 4.01

Postby Lanthorr » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:47 pm

I remember some talk about this well before public beta, mostly tanks bitching and some blue confirming that it did indeed suck. Hope this turns out to be true.
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Re: Taunts unable to miss since 4.01

Postby kurtizzle » Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:33 pm

Not posted for a while, I'm not sure this should go in advanced theorycraft as it is a basic observation.

That said, to answer your question, I agree, I don't think Blizz have officially stated that they will make any classes taunts never miss.

There is a reason ours don't miss however, that reason is http://www.wowhead.com/spell=53592. < Touched by the light

Also when this was added as a basline Protection passive to Paladin Protection tree similar, passive were added to other 'Protection' trees.

To test this, simply have a friend pull a mob and then try and taunt it in Ret EDIT: HOLY spec, with 0 gear.

Ret tree also has +6% spell hit. Wowhead shows me its 6% but I'm certain it was changed to 8% on the PTR or Beta, can anyone with either client confirm?

PS: Are you taunting a lvl 80 dummy? If so try a boss dummy and see if it misses, I think it might!

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Re: Taunts unable to miss since 4.01

Postby Fridmarr » Sat Nov 06, 2010 5:27 pm

kurtizzle wrote:Not posted for a while, I'm not sure this should go in advanced theorycraft as it is a basic observation.

That said, to answer your question, I agree, I don't think Blizz have officially stated that they will make any classes taunts never miss.

There is a reason ours don't miss however, that reason is http://www.wowhead.com/spell=53592. < Touched by the light

Also when this was added as a basline Protection passive to Paladin Protection tree similar, passive were added to other 'Protection' trees.

To test this, simply have a friend pull a mob and then try and taunt it in Ret EDIT: HOLY spec, with 0 gear.

Ret tree also has +6% spell hit. Wowhead shows me its 6% but I'm certain it was changed to 8% on the PTR or Beta, can anyone with either client confirm?

PS: Are you taunting a lvl 80 dummy? If so try a boss dummy and see if it misses, I think it might!

Kurt

Isn't the base miss chance for spells against a boss something like 17%? Or did that get changed? In any event, the 2.3 patch notes from TBC days has...Taunt: The chance for this ability to land successfully on its target is now increased by hit rating. So it is also affected by normal hit so that we, in combination with TBTL, can hit cap it, but I don't think TBTL is enough right out of the box.
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Re: Taunts unable to miss since 4.01

Postby theckhd » Sat Nov 06, 2010 5:35 pm

Spell miss is still 17%, so TbtL alone wouldn't be enough to prevent misses. There have been various theories on this, but based on reports of 0 taunt misses on a heroic dummy in 250+ casts with <1% melee hit, the logical conclusion seems to be that taunts no longer miss.
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Re: Taunts unable to miss since 4.01

Postby kurtizzle » Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:11 am

Well what Theck says is alway 99.9% accurate, I'll go play with Boss dummy when I get home to confirm, this is very interesting. So yeah thanks to the OP for bringing this up... maybe we can get Knaughty to put some nice Taunt doesn't miss in the FAQ he/she is working on!

Thanks again Theck..

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Last edited by kurtizzle on Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Taunts unable to miss since 4.01

Postby kurtizzle » Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:20 am

Isn't the base miss chance for spells against a boss something like 17%? Or did that get changed? In any event, the 2.3 patch notes from TBC days has...Taunt: The chance for this ability to land successfully on its target is now increased by hit rating. So it is also affected by normal hit so that we, in combination with TBTL, can hit cap it, but I don't think TBTL is enough right out of the box.


Yeah I agree, however if we remember the old Taunt glyph which was somewhere around +6%-8% hit value added to taunt, we should realise we didn't need 17% spell hit before for taunt to not miss, so although for the purpose of game mechanics it is considered a spell, I put it to you that it only requires the user to be melee hit capped to land successfully.

Kinda got my posts the wrong way round, however in summary we can be safe in the knowledge that taunt does appear to not miss regardless of our hit rating.

Question to theck, does this dimminish the value of hit, I've seen you MATLAB graphs and hit is highest for TPS follow'd by Expertise upto hard cap, but my question would be:

In a purely EH / Avoidence set up, is external threat generation sufficient untill a threat lead is established.
Last edited by kurtizzle on Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Taunts unable to miss since 4.01

Postby theckhd » Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:13 am

kurtizzle wrote:Yeah I agree, however if we remember the old Taunt glyph which was somewhere around +6%-8% hit value added to taunt, we should realise we didn't need 17% spell hit before for taunt to not miss, so although for the purpose of game mechanics it is considered a spell, I put it to you that it only requires the user to be melee hit capped to land successfully.

The old taunt glyph wasn't enough to single-handedly prevent misses. Taunt did indeed have a 17% miss chance against bosses in WotLK content.


kurtizzle wrote:In a purely EH / Avoidence set up, is external threat generatures sufficient untill a threat lead is established.

That really depends on your gear, the gear of your DPS, how well you execute your rotation, and other environmental factors. I haven't found it necessary to hit cap to hold threat.
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Re: Taunts unable to miss since 4.01

Postby kurtizzle » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:36 am

Well I think we all know the answer now from this thread, hope that cleared things up for the OP, it informed me somewhat.

Rhiannon wrote: As far as I know there's been no patchnote or blue post confirming this to be the case for sure, but threads on the wow forums


Alot of people confirming this, so I'm going to pass on testing as it is pretty much solid evidence over on the wow forums, hopefully we get a blue post to close the lid on this, but as they're very busy maybe not :(

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Re: Taunts unable to miss since 4.01

Postby Neptuno » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:59 pm

prot isn't correctly receiving spell hit in 4.0.1 (ret is - it shows on character frame), so taunts will be unable to miss once you're melee hit capped and 4.0.3 fixes this (and increases it's % as well)
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Re: Taunts unable to miss since 4.01

Postby Rhiannon » Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:45 am

Neptuno wrote:prot isn't correctly receiving spell hit in 4.0.1 (ret is - it shows on character frame), so taunts will be unable to miss once you're melee hit capped and 4.0.3 fixes this (and increases it's % as well)


Did you actually read the OP? :S

The point is that taunts cannot miss at the moment, even with 0 hit rating, for any class, at least until someone produces evidence to the contrary. Nothing to do with the TbtL bug. Likely an intentional and permanent change, but without official confirmation yet, just some musings from a few months back.
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Re: Taunts unable to miss since 4.01

Postby Fetzie » Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:03 am

I am very sure that I successfully taunted professor putricide when I got the -100% hit debuff on heroic difficulty. Whether this is simply coded into the encounter I do not know. If not, this would be the perfect place to test the hypothesis that taunts cannot miss (as if it is not guaranteed to land you should always miss)
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Re: Taunts unable to miss since 4.01

Postby Rhiannon » Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:11 am

Pyrea wrote:I am very sure that I successfully taunted professor putricide when I got the -100% hit debuff on heroic difficulty. Whether this is simply coded into the encounter I do not know. If not, this would be the perfect place to test the hypothesis that taunts cannot miss (as if it is not guaranteed to land you should always miss)


Pretty sure that was coded into the encounter anyway, I've had tanks taunt fine with the gas bomb debuff pre-patch.
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Re: Taunts unable to miss since 4.01

Postby lythac » Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:13 am

There is an easier way to test.

Get a level 14 paladin and use the level 80 (not ??) training dummy.

I used a level 71 paladin against it and landed 20 in a row which has a ridiculously low chance of happening.
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Re: Taunts unable to miss since 4.01

Postby AriKT » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:45 pm

Rhiannon wrote:
Pyrea wrote:I am very sure that I successfully taunted professor putricide when I got the -100% hit debuff on heroic difficulty. Whether this is simply coded into the encounter I do not know. If not, this would be the perfect place to test the hypothesis that taunts cannot miss (as if it is not guaranteed to land you should always miss)


Pretty sure that was coded into the encounter anyway, I've had tanks taunt fine with the gas bomb debuff pre-patch.


Taunts were on the spell hit table back then and the gas bombs only affected melee hit.
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