PTR Build 13245

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Re: PTR Build 13245

Postby Palisade » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:44 pm

d503 wrote:There's miles of difference between providing constructive criticism on a development decision and OMGNERDRAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!!!!!

<snip>

You save everyone /tinfoilhat time, and yourself a little heartache.


Awesome post.
Had me loling @ work and getting weird looks for it.
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Re: PTR Build 13245

Postby d503 » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:59 pm

Klaudandus wrote:Interesting to see warrior's self healing was also brought down a notch.
* Blood Craze now regenerates 1/2/3% of your total health over 5 sec, down from 2.5/5/7.5%.

Not surprised however, my friend was telling me he was low level tanking thru RFK as a Fury, with two one-hand maces.


Probably more due to Victory Rush healing, than Blood Craze (although that's still good!). Victory Rush is basically 50% of your health bar on a killing blow.
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Re: PTR Build 13245

Postby steadypal » Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:15 pm

we didnt get nerfed the same as the others, they mostly nerfed the self healing % based heals, because % of a retarded amount of HP is alot more than say, WOG fixed amount of healing...
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Re: PTR Build 13245

Postby Ryyu » Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:54 am

steadypal wrote:we didnt get nerfed the same as the others, they mostly nerfed the self healing % based heals, because % of a retarded amount of HP is alot more than say, WOG fixed amount of healing...



SoI is a %, quite a high one iirc.
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Re: PTR Build 13245

Postby Darielle » Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:57 am

Ryyu wrote:
steadypal wrote:we didnt get nerfed the same as the others, they mostly nerfed the self healing % based heals, because % of a retarded amount of HP is alot more than say, WOG fixed amount of healing...



SoI is a %, quite a high one iirc.


SoI's heal is a stat scalar and the mana restoration is a % if I recall correctly. A quick WoWhead search agrees with me, but I could be wrong.

Seal of Insight
14% of base mana
Instant cast
Fills the Paladin with divine power for 30 min, giving each single-target melee attack a chance to heal the Paladin for (0.15 * AP.15 * holy power) and restore 4% of the paladin's base mana. Only one Seal can be active on the Paladin at any one time.

Unleashing this Seal's energy will deal (1 + 0.25 * holy power.16 * AP) Holy damage to an enemy.
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Re: PTR Build 13245

Postby Flex » Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:49 pm

steadypal wrote:we didnt get nerfed the same as the others, they mostly nerfed the self healing % based heals, because % of a retarded amount of HP is alot more than say, WOG fixed amount of healing...


And WOG isn't fixed. It scales with AP.
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Re: PTR Build 13245

Postby Neptuno » Sun Nov 07, 2010 4:19 pm

yeah, my lvl 80 tooltip shows 1091 hp and 4% mana from SoI so definitely 15% of AP+SP... but this does scale with health pool in that vengeance improves it quite a bit... 1500 from 10k vengeance alone. still significant when looking at harder encounters... and with reckoning... makes me wonder if we should keep a fast weapon on hand too for healing
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Re: PTR Build 13245

Postby luminae » Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:15 pm

neptuno, i thought they had pretty much done nothing but 2.0 speeds on tanking weapons so far in beta? am i wrong?
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Re: PTR Build 13245

Postby Rhiannon » Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:16 pm

luminae wrote:neptuno, i thought they had pretty much done nothing but 2.0 speeds on tanking weapons so far in beta? am i wrong?


Not seen a single 2.0. They're all 2.6.
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Re: PTR Build 13245

Postby Flex » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:04 pm

Neptuno wrote:yeah, my lvl 80 tooltip shows 1091 hp and 4% mana from SoI so definitely 15% of AP+SP... but this does scale with health pool in that vengeance improves it quite a bit... 1500 from 10k vengeance alone. still significant when looking at harder encounters... and with reckoning... makes me wonder if we should keep a fast weapon on hand too for healing


SoI is a PPM mechanic so I doubt reckoning helps it any.
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Re: PTR Build 13245

Postby Noradin » Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:53 am

Flex wrote:
Neptuno wrote:yeah, my lvl 80 tooltip shows 1091 hp and 4% mana from SoI so definitely 15% of AP+SP... but this does scale with health pool in that vengeance improves it quite a bit... 1500 from 10k vengeance alone. still significant when looking at harder encounters... and with reckoning... makes me wonder if we should keep a fast weapon on hand too for healing


SoI is a PPM mechanic so I doubt reckoning helps it any.

It does.
PPM mechanics always use
Code: Select all
ppm / weapon speed = proc chance
.
If those effects can proc on reckoning at all - which they usually do - you get
Code: Select all
reckoning hits * ppm / weapon speed
extra procs.
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Re: PTR Build 13245

Postby theckhd » Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:15 am

That's not how PPM mechanics work. The error in that logic should be obvious, just look at the units:

(Procs/Minute) / (seconds/swing) = Proc-swings per minute-seconds.

Which is nonsensical.

The formula is:

(Procs/Minute) * (Seconds/Swing) / (Seconds/Minute) = (Procs*Seconds*Minute)/(Minute*Swing*Seconds) = Procs/Swing

In other words,

Proc rate = PPM*Weapon_Speed/60.

This is why PPM-based effects are almost always better with a slow weapon, provided they proc off of specials. A slow weapon increases the proc chance, which makes specials proc the effect more often. Extra swings from Reckoning work exactly the same way as specials.
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Re: PTR Build 13245

Postby Griffith » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:09 am

Noradin wrote:
Flex wrote:
Neptuno wrote:yeah, my lvl 80 tooltip shows 1091 hp and 4% mana from SoI so definitely 15% of AP+SP... but this does scale with health pool in that vengeance improves it quite a bit... 1500 from 10k vengeance alone. still significant when looking at harder encounters... and with reckoning... makes me wonder if we should keep a fast weapon on hand too for healing


SoI is a PPM mechanic so I doubt reckoning helps it any.

It does.
PPM mechanics always use
Code: Select all
ppm / weapon speed = proc chance
.
If those effects can proc on reckoning at all - which they usually do - you get
Code: Select all
reckoning hits * ppm / weapon speed
extra procs.


NONSENSICAL
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Re: PTR Build 13245

Postby luminae » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:19 am

Rhiannon wrote:
luminae wrote:neptuno, i thought they had pretty much done nothing but 2.0 speeds on tanking weapons so far in beta? am i wrong?


Not seen a single 2.0. They're all 2.6.


Thanks for the correction, rhiannon. i knew it was all one speed, and i had the speed wrong >.<
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Re: PTR Build 13245

Postby Noradin » Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:20 pm

theckhd wrote:That's not how PPM mechanics work. The error in that logic should be obvious, just look at the units:

(Procs/Minute) / (seconds/swing) = Proc-swings per minute-seconds.

Which is nonsensical.

The formula is:

(Procs/Minute) * (Seconds/Swing) / (Seconds/Minute) = (Procs*Seconds*Minute)/(Minute*Swing*Seconds) = Procs/Swing

In other words,

Proc rate = PPM*Weapon_Speed/60.

This is why PPM-based effects are almost always better with a slow weapon, provided they proc off of specials. A slow weapon increases the proc chance, which makes specials proc the effect more often. Extra swings from Reckoning work exactly the same way as specials.


Sorry was thinking with weapon speed as swing/second again, which is how a "speed" is defined and which does give you the right units.
Anyways, the point was that with reckoning you get more procs than without even if the procchance is given in ppm.
I never meant to imply that fast weapons might be better for ppm with or without reckoning. To be frank I did't look at that part of the post at all.
The discussion about the ideal weapon to make use of reckoning should still apply for procs on swings (which was a speed of 1 swing per 2.6s if I remember correctly).

@Griffith: I don't know what your problem is. I was under the impression that helpful posts in whole sentences as opposed to rude single word comments in all caps was what made this forum better than de official forums. After theck pointed out my lapsus with the weird terminology used in WoW there wasn't really a need for you to comment (45 minutes later so his post definitely showed up before), was there?
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