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[DK Blood Tank] 4.0.1 Rotation Help

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Re: [DK Blood Tank] 4.0.1 Rotation Help

Postby Korola » Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:45 am

http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addo ... lc-dk.aspx

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That add on is current.

Also, once you monkey around with it for a little while, you will get the feel for it. You get to decide how to spend death runes and that makes it feel intuitive.
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Re: [DK Blood Tank] 4.0.1 Rotation Help

Postby Kiorken » Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:11 am

Korola wrote:http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/clc-dk.aspx

Image

That add on is current.

Also, once you monkey around with it for a little while, you will get the feel for it. You get to decide how to spend death runes and that makes it feel intuitive.



Excellent, you rock!

I will definitely try this out when I get home today. I guess it's something to look forward too lol
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Re: [DK Blood Tank] 4.0.1 Rotation Help

Postby d503 » Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:03 am

Kiorken wrote:-Single target (Progression) should have diseases? So, IT, PS, DS, RS, so on...


Should have diseases primarily for 20% ATK SPD reduction that you'll need to apply anyway, also, your first Heart Strike should likely be a Blood Boil so you can maintain the 10% AP debuff on the mob.

This can all, ofc, be covered by an offtank...especially a Tankadin, as our debuffs don't require doing *anything* outside of our normal rotation :)))))
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Re: [DK Blood Tank] 4.0.1 Rotation Help

Postby Korola » Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:27 pm

Good point. The debuffs are both part of what a paladin already does. Some information on those debuffs can give you an idea synergy wise how you pair up with other tanks.

Tankadin

Vindication Single Target
Instant
Your Crusader Strike and Hammer of the Righteous reduce physical damage done by their primary targets by 10% for 30 sec.

Judgements of the Just Single Target
Your Judgement reduces the melee and ranged attack speed of the target by 20% for 20 sec. In addition, increases the duration of your Seal of Justice effect by 1 sec.

As d503 said, the 20% attack speed debuff and the 10% damage reduction, are covered by a tankadin just doing their rotation.


Warrior

Thunder Clap Edited
20 Rage
Instant
6 sec cooldown

Requires Battle Stance, Defensive Stance
Blasts enemies within 8 yards for 302 damage, and increases the time between their attacks by 20% for 30 sec. Damage increased by attack power.


Demoralizing Shout AoE
10 Rage
Instant
Reduces the physical damage caused by all enemies within 10 yards by 10% for 30 sec.

Pretty easy for warriors to get these debuffs up too, 10 rage and 2 GCD's.


Druid Single Target

Infected Wounds
Your Shred, Ravage, Maul, and Mangle attacks cause an Infected Wound in the target. The Infected Wound reduces the movement speed of the target by 50% and the attack speed by 20%. Lasts 12 sec.

Demoralizing Roar AoE
10 Rage
Instant
Requires Bear Form
The druid roars, reducing the physical damage caused by all enemies within 10 yards by 10% for 30 sec.


Once again, it makes it almost logical when paired with the other 3 tanks for a DK to not spend -

Blood Boil (AoE 10% damage reduction)- inferior on less than 4 targets and pretty weak damage. 1 blood rune, 1 GCD
Icy Touch (20% attack speed slow)- doesn't have the threat modifier anymore, increases only damage caused by heart strike or blood boil by 10% (on that one target). 1 frost rune, 1 GCD

and in an AoE situation even less because then you add

Pestilence (spread 20% slow)- cuts disease damage in half (which is pretty irrelevant) and increases only heart strike or blood boil damage by 10%. 1 blood rune, 1 GCD.

Then you are left with 1 frost and 2 unholy runes after 3 GCD's. None of those 3 maneuvers does a high amount of threat. You will have to Blood Tap to get a high threat Heart Strike, and have one set of F-U runes for a Death Strike. Leaving you to the RNG God of Avoidance for Rune Strikes.

EDIT: to correct Thunder Clap tooltip.
Last edited by Korola on Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [DK Blood Tank] 4.0.1 Rotation Help

Postby Flex » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:33 pm

Wrong Thunderclap, this is the right one http://cata.wowhead.com/spell=6343
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Re: [DK Blood Tank] 4.0.1 Rotation Help

Postby d503 » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:47 pm

Just a thought:

Progression Rotation, 1 Target - IT, PS, BB, HS, DS, then just rotate on this priority BB=ITPS > RS > HS > DS (as in your debuff abilities are a priority over others when they are about to expire).

You might as well couple Icy Touch and Plague Strike, since you can't do anything with that empty Unholy Rune (though you could always Blood Tap DS, but I prefer to save Blood Tap for when I need a cooldown). Having Blood Plague up does increase your threat, however, so it's probably worth it in progression single target situations.

For short single target encounters (heroics), I generally go with:

DS, HS, HS, DS, RS Dump...rinse and repeat on the following priority: RS > HS > DS.

The one caveat to all of this is if you want to use the Blood Shield proactively...that would change up DS's priority.

Hope this helps.
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Re: [DK Blood Tank] 4.0.1 Rotation Help

Postby kennywu » Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:20 am

I cleared ICC10 last night downing 8 heroic bosses with a diseaseless build. I dropped all talents that dealt with diseases except the Blood Boil one. I didn't have any threat problems all night on single target or trash. I did switch DnD glyph with Rune Strike glyph between bosses.
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Re: [DK Blood Tank] 4.0.1 Rotation Help

Postby Kiorken » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:49 pm

So what kind of build are we looking at, if I wanted to grind heroics to gear my friends/self?
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Re: [DK Blood Tank] 4.0.1 Rotation Help

Postby Kelaan » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:18 am

My DK has a bog-standard (I think?) cookie-cutter build from EJ -- not optimized for diseaseless. Still, for heroic farming, it's trivial to use a diseaseless STYLE of play, and I'm much more confortable with it now. You get so many heart strikes. Think of it like having an old-school Hammer of the Righteous, two-handed, that you can use 2 to 6 times in immediate succession.

When you have FU runes, use a Death Strike to get you more Heart Strikes later. When you have lots of death runes ... change targets like a spaz and mash Heart Strike. In larger AOEs (4-5), I'd normally drop D&D when I could (and would often wait the extra 5-10 secs to get it back off cooldown), since otherwise I found I'd lose aggro at times to a warrior's whirlwind or some mages AOEing. Here's what I eventually ended up doing last night:

- Rune strike if it's available, unless you need multi-target snap threat.
- HS when you can.
- Death Strike to feed death runes.

I haven't considered whether it's better to go DS,DS,HS,HS or DS,HS,DS,HS -- I think the latter is better, but usually I would rather have the snap aggro on 4-6 mobs and suffer a slower rune recovery.
-

My biggest "problem" was that my runic power was nearly always maxed. I couldn't spent Rune Strike often enough. Rune Strike was something like 20% of my damage most pulls. I eventually altered my playstyle to work in more Rune Strikes. The other problem is getting INITIAL aggro as I run in. I still use death coil sometimes for this, but usually try to save D&D for larger pulls like that.
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Re: [DK Blood Tank] 4.0.1 Rotation Help

Postby d503 » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:43 am

Kelaan wrote:My DK has a bog-standard (I think?) cookie-cutter build from EJ -- not optimized for diseaseless. Still, for heroic farming, it's trivial to use a diseaseless STYLE of play, and I'm much more confortable with it now. You get so many heart strikes. Think of it like having an old-school Hammer of the Righteous, two-handed, that you can use 2 to 6 times in immediate succession.

When you have FU runes, use a Death Strike to get you more Heart Strikes later. When you have lots of death runes ... change targets like a spaz and mash Heart Strike. In larger AOEs (4-5), I'd normally drop D&D when I could (and would often wait the extra 5-10 secs to get it back off cooldown), since otherwise I found I'd lose aggro at times to a warrior's whirlwind or some mages AOEing. Here's what I eventually ended up doing last night:

- Rune strike if it's available, unless you need multi-target snap threat.
- HS when you can.
- Death Strike to feed death runes.

I haven't considered whether it's better to go DS,DS,HS,HS or DS,HS,DS,HS -- I think the latter is better, but usually I would rather have the snap aggro on 4-6 mobs and suffer a slower rune recovery.
-

My biggest "problem" was that my runic power was nearly always maxed. I couldn't spent Rune Strike often enough. Rune Strike was something like 20% of my damage most pulls. I eventually altered my playstyle to work in more Rune Strikes. The other problem is getting INITIAL aggro as I run in. I still use death coil sometimes for this, but usually try to save D&D for larger pulls like that.


Saw a post over at deathknight.info that suggested DS -> HS -> HS -> DS because of the following:
Make sure to DS then HS,HS then DS instead of DS twice because it will slow your rune regeneration AND you want the additional runic power generated from the heart strikes for your second Death Strike (if you are glyphed for DS). Also, don't use any runic power on the pull until after your 2nd death strike for the same reason.


Makes sense to me.

Also, I've found that www.pwnwear.com (retarded name, I know) is a *VERY* good DK Tanking resource.
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Re: [DK Blood Tank] 4.0.1 Rotation Help

Postby Sober » Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:51 am

So blood DK tanking hasn't really changed too much since 3.3.5 has it? I still just DS to feed HS spam? Because I got the impression that I should be saving FU/DD rune pairs for DS, but I suppose that is for progression fights?
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Re: [DK Blood Tank] 4.0.1 Rotation Help

Postby Gracerath » Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:59 am

Heart strike spam is dead, honestly. You use your death runes for more death strikes or for a quick blood boil or refresh your bone shield or whatever (though really, I guess you should be using a blood tap + bone shield macro for that). Heart strike damage sucks, especially at 80 when blood tanks aren't using diseases. Unless you're the only provider of the attack speed debuff, then you'll use icy touch. You'll still use heart strike when you're hitting 1-2 targets with your blood runes but its much better to use any death runes or FU pairs on more death strikes, especially when you learn to time them with spikes of damage taken.

DK blood tanking is a joy right now though some report that it feels a bit squishy with the nerfs to blood presence's armor (from 60% down to 30%) and the change to death strike's healing, nerfed a few % due to balance at 85. However, being able to time your death strikes, your cooldowns and a proper reforge into a good bit of mastery makes this less of a problm than it looks like and to me makes for more engaging play.
Bye space sword!
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Re: [DK Blood Tank] 4.0.1 Rotation Help

Postby Korola » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:00 am

Another big change is the removal of the requirement to dodge or parry from Rune Strike while tanking. You can use it when in blood presence or for 10 seconds after you dodge or parry. They lowered the damage from 200% to 150% and increased the cost from 20 to 30 runic power. This helps out on casters.
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Re: [DK Blood Tank] 4.0.1 Rotation Help

Postby Gracerath » Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:45 am

So I learn something new every day. In the past, I remember having to use a cancel aura macro to get rid of the blood tap buff because it fucked up your rotation. Now, it is quite damn awesome and I didn't really know about it or why it was awesome until a short while ago.

1)Its an extra rune every 30s for whatever you may need it for. Standard stuff.

2)By leaving the buff active, your 2nd blood rune is a death rune for 20 out of every 30 seconds, talented. Why is this good? Because it gives you another death rune to refresh from Runic Empowerment. So you have a 5/6 chance to get a useful rune. Or a 5/5 chance, some people try not to use that last blood rune if at all possible to make sure they get a death rune 100% of the time. I'm not that fancy with it just yet.

Cool stuff. Figured I would share, just in case anyon else wasn't aware of this functionality. I'm not sure if it was used in this capacity pre 4.0 but if so, I sure feel like a noob for missing out.
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Re: [DK Blood Tank] 4.0.1 Rotation Help

Postby Kelaan » Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:45 pm

I am completely baffled by how I am supposed to use defensive cooldowns as a DK; I never seem to have the right runes ready, and never manage to use rune tap. Can you explain better what cooldowns there are that I should be trying to keep available, and how to go about doing that without gimping my rotation? I guess I just generally don't get why Blood Tap is so nice, even after your detailed writeup -- why do I care about death runes?
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