Cataclysm Beta - Build 13242

SPOILERS Discussion about the Cataclysm Beta SPOILERS

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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13242

Postby Chicken » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:40 pm

Rasmfrackn wrote:Eh, PotI was at least predictable. EG is the problem, obviously. RNG of that magnitude, especially in PvP, is broken no matter what else is involved. At least PotI is predictable. Without EG we have an entirely known rate of self healing. Of course, alternating generator/WoG with PotI gave what, 8k heals every 3 seconds, maybe more? Not bad for "free", though it drops our dps in the toilet. That part seemed reasonable to me. Giving us the chance to keep gaining more combo points via EG procs while healing is an issue... self-heal for 8k, 12k, and then ShoR a full 3-stack, and that's a horrible balance of big self healing and big hits.
Yeah, wouldn't surprise me too much if they add a "This effect can not occur more than once every 10 seconds" or something similar to Eternal Glory to prevent the strength of back-to-back procs.

I'd still prefer them applying something I suggested a few months ago to it, that is: "Your abilities that cost Holy Power have 10/20/30% chance to cause your next Word of Glory to cost no Holy Power and casts as if 3 Holy Power were used. Eternal Glory can not trigger itself.", but I can understand them not wanting to do so. Actually something like that would work as well as a way of fixing back-to-back procs, just limit it so only Word of Glory can proc that redesigned Eternal Glory and you have the same effect.
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13242

Postby Sonic » Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:15 pm

Eh, holy shield sure has been destroyed. I'm sad to see how much it's changed for cata after remaning viturally the same for the past 6 years. An extra 10% reduction isn't too bad though. I wonder if it will be overly strong at higher raid tiers, assuming we can hit the block cap again later on.

qq mode: so tired of being indirectly nerfed as prot pvp cause holy/ret are overpowered at something.
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13242

Postby Flex » Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:17 pm

Rasmfrackn wrote:Eh, PotI was at least predictable. EG is the problem, obviously.


PotI was not nerfed due to eternal glory. It was nerfed due to Blessed Life and Word of Glory allowing Holy Paladins to be unkillable in PvP so they got a double nerf to tone that down.

See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtK9EvhqEIw for an example.

I see vengeance is still wreaking havoc across the board, too.


How do you figure? Nothing in this build is related to Vengeance from my glance through.
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13242

Postby Rasmfrackn » Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:21 pm

Rasmfrackn wrote:Eh, PotI was at least predictable. EG is the problem, obviously. RNG of that magnitude, especially in PvP, is broken no matter what else is involved. At least PotI is predictable. Without EG we have an entirely known rate of self healing. Of course, alternating generator/WoG with PotI gave what, 8k heals every 3 seconds, maybe more? Not bad for "free", though it drops our dps in the toilet. That part seemed reasonable to me. Giving us the chance to keep gaining more combo points via EG procs while healing is an issue... self-heal for 8k, 12k, and then ShoR a full 3-stack, and that's a horrible balance of big self healing and big hits.


I realized on my walk to the store that this is too prot-centric. I keep forgetting that the other two specs actually get a LOT more combo points to play around with. We, on the other hand, don't use them for anything that a 9 second shared cooldown wouldn't accomplish much better.

Flex wrote:
I see vengeance is still wreaking havoc across the board, too.


How do you figure? Nothing in this build is related to Vengeance from my glance through.

Well, in my eyes any tank damage nerfs are ill-conceived when we should be getting large buffs across the board and having vengeance turned into something of a perk not a sledge hammer balance fix. :)
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13242

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:25 pm

Sonic wrote:Eh, holy shield sure has been destroyed. [...] An extra 10% reduction isn't too bad though.

Make your mind up. Is it destroyed, or not too bad?
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13242

Postby Flex » Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:28 pm

Rasmfrackn wrote:Well, in my eyes any tank damage nerfs are ill-conceived when we should be getting large buffs across the board and having vengeance turned into something of a perk not a sledge hammer balance fix. :)


Did you read my note about how they are handling weapon damage attack scaling?

Weapon damage attacks start out weaker when you are lower levels and by the time you are 80 they will be as strong as they are currently, if not stronger based on recent changes like this one: Mangle (Bear Form) now deals 360% normal damage, up from 230%.
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13242

Postby Malthrax » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:07 pm

Sonic wrote:qq mode: so tired of being indirectly nerfed as prot pvp cause holy/ret are overpowered at something.


Seriously, couldn't they just add an extra ability/flag/debuff to the Warrior and Paladin protection trees that prevents you from queueing for a BG or arena when in prot spec, and leave us the heck alone???
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13242

Postby Dantriges » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:19 pm

Hm, pvp balance affecting pve. They slowly should get the idea that you cannot have balance for both in the same tree.
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13242

Postby mavfin » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:20 pm

Flex wrote:
steadypal wrote:yikes, they lowered prots mastery quite a bit now, with no more 15% br from holy shield, and now they reverted the mastery from 24 back to 18,,, yoinks, bye bye block capping anytime soon lol, also for warriors


I enjoy how you comment on stuff that you've already discussed like it is amazing new information. And I'm sure the Shield Block think is a typo or misinterpretation.


Yeah, I'm sure that's a typo by Boub. Shield Block isn't a passive. They lowered a 100% block skill to a 25% block skill, so steady should be ecstatic instead of crying, but, he's determined to see that the sky is falling, I guess.
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13242

Postby Sonic » Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:24 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:
Sonic wrote:Eh, holy shield sure has been destroyed. [...] An extra 10% reduction isn't too bad though.

Make your mind up. Is it destroyed, or not too bad?


Try putting the rest of the quote in there. But since i obviously need to explain. For 6 years it has been an active skill that gave 30% block value. Now it's a passive that gives you 10% more reduction when you block an attack. While the new change is decent, it's been destroyed from it's orignal use.
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13242

Postby Thornir » Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:33 pm

Malthrax wrote:
Sonic wrote:qq mode: so tired of being indirectly nerfed as prot pvp cause holy/ret are overpowered at something.


Seriously, couldn't they just add an extra ability/flag/debuff to the Warrior and Paladin protection trees that prevents you from queueing for a BG or arena when in prot spec, and leave us the heck alone???


But, but, but... I like my Prot PvP :(
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13242

Postby d503 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:06 pm

Sonic wrote:
KysenMurrin wrote:
Sonic wrote:Eh, holy shield sure has been destroyed. [...] An extra 10% reduction isn't too bad though.

Make your mind up. Is it destroyed, or not too bad?


Try putting the rest of the quote in there. But since i obviously need to explain. For 6 years it has been an active skill that gave 30% block value. Now it's a passive that gives you 10% more reduction when you block an attack. While the new change is decent, it's been destroyed from it's orignal use.


Ummm...30% block chance, not block value :) It's not destroyed, it's still a Holy Shield...change is a part of a persistent universe and an MMO at that, about high time to get used to it.
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13242

Postby Rasmfrackn » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:29 pm

Flex wrote:
Rasmfrackn wrote:Well, in my eyes any tank damage nerfs are ill-conceived when we should be getting large buffs across the board and having vengeance turned into something of a perk not a sledge hammer balance fix. :)


Did you read my note about how they are handling weapon damage attack scaling?

Weapon damage attacks start out weaker when you are lower levels and by the time you are 80 they will be as strong as they are currently, if not stronger based on recent changes like this one: Mangle (Bear Form) now deals 360% normal damage, up from 230%.

Yes, I understand now that these particular nerfs are level-dependent nerfs, and not something that'll affect max level.

I guess I'll continue my vengeance tirade elsewhere. :)
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13242

Postby PsiVen » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:59 pm

Sonic wrote:qq mode: so tired of being indirectly nerfed as prot pvp cause holy/ret are overpowered at something.


This. It's particularly irritating given that Ret now has multiple 'fixes' that Prot desperately needs too.
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13242

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:46 pm

Rasmfrackn wrote:Eh, PotI was at least predictable. EG is the problem, obviously. RNG of that magnitude, especially in PvP, is broken no matter what else is involved. At least PotI is predictable. Without EG we have an entirely known rate of self healing. Of course, alternating generator/WoG with PotI gave what, 8k heals every 3 seconds, maybe more? Not bad for "free", though it drops our dps in the toilet. That part seemed reasonable to me. Giving us the chance to keep gaining more combo points via EG procs while healing is an issue... self-heal for 8k, 12k, and then ShoR a full 3-stack, and that's a horrible balance of big self healing and big hits.


I'm pretty sure they prefer the unpredictable nature of EG to the straight up increase of PotI.
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