Block Cap now unreasonable pre-cata?

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Block Cap now unreasonable pre-cata?

Postby Donpablo » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:22 am

With the newly announced changes for pallys (taken from a blue post on mmo-champ)
"# Holy Shield will be changed to increase block value by 10% (40% total) instead of increasing block chance by 15%. Since this will cause Mastery to become more valuable, the amount of block granted by Mastery will be reduced to 2.25% block chance per point of Mastery, down from 3%."

This removes 15% of our block chance, but makes us block for more. Most of the pallys I've checked on these forums have most of their gear reforged for mastery (I have every piece reforged) in order to get to block cap. Has losing that 15% AND having mastery give less block chance per point made reaching that block cap not possible (or not viable) with current gear? I'll be looking into possibilities, but it seems that the investment to get to block cap now will be outweighed by the loss of EH/other avoidance in order to achieve it.

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Re: Block Cap now unreasonable pre-cata?

Postby Metherlance » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:33 am

Donpablo wrote: Has losing that 15% AND having mastery give less block chance per point made reaching that block cap not possible (or not viable) with current gear?


Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: It comes with 4.0.3a patch which comes in a ~month or so, so until then it is wise to reach for the block cap. After the patch dunno really yet. I'd guess no one has yet thought about it too much.

Edit: And it actually gives more block chance after the patch, since on Live servers it gives now 2%, and on beta 3%.
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Re: Block Cap now unreasonable pre-cata?

Postby Morwo » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:33 am

In 4.03 i´ll gain 4.0375 extra block chance due the buff of mastery 2% to 2.25%. 10,9625 left to my old blockcap. maybe reforging will do it again, i still got some non-mastery stats forged
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Re: Block Cap now unreasonable pre-cata?

Postby Maelsstrom » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:47 am

The real question is, is there really any benefit to being block capped at 85?

In Cataclysm, health pools are much higher relative to the size of each attack so the worst case scenario time-to-live is supposed to be much longer. The more hits are needed to kill you, the more statistically likely you are to dodge/parry some in addition to blocking some of the hits. Look at it this way, if my miss/avoid/block is 90%, then the likelihood for six hits in a row to all hit and be unblocked is 0.000 001. I can live with that once in a blue moon if it means I can gear for the long-term damage minimization the other 0.999 999 of the time.

That said, I'm holding my breath on that concept because, if true, it implies tanks don't die because of inadequate EH which is a really foreign concept for a stam whore like me.
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Re: Block Cap now unreasonable pre-cata?

Postby Fridmarr » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:54 am

Maelsstrom wrote:The real question is, is there really any benefit to being block capped at 85?

In Cataclysm, health pools are much higher relative to the size of each attack so the worst case scenario time-to-live is supposed to be much longer. The more hits are needed to kill you, the more statistically likely you are to dodge/parry some in addition to blocking some of the hits. Look at it this way, if my miss/avoid/block is 90%, then the likelihood for six hits in a row to all hit and be unblocked is 0.000 001. I can live with that once in a blue moon if it means I can gear for the long-term damage minimization the other 0.999 999 of the time.

That said, I'm holding my breath on that concept because, if true, it implies tanks don't die because of inadequate EH which is a really foreign concept for a stam whore like me.

Yeah, it'll depend a bit on the damage model. If reducing total damage done is very important, then it's quite possible that reaching the block cap is not an efficient way to spend Ilevel points.
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Re: Block Cap now unreasonable pre-cata?

Postby Arincia » Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:50 pm

Well potentially it could not be as bad. With the 5% block value meta and the recent changes to HS adding 10% block value a block would then be only 58% physical damage taken. This would mean that 1 dodge/parry/miss is = to (1/block value) blocks.

*edit*

Sabindeus while i realize i shouldn't have posted referencing cata stuff (in hindsight) i'm just replying to say its very interesting that its multiplicative for the meta.
Last edited by Arincia on Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Block Cap now unreasonable pre-cata?

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:08 pm

Arincia wrote:With the 5% block value meta and the recent changes to HS adding 10% block value a block would then be only 55% physical damage taken.

The way the block meta gem is working right now it'll make you block for 42%, not 45%. Or at least what I last heard was it was changing the 30% to 31.5% (thus applying multiplicatively).
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Re: Block Cap now unreasonable pre-cata?

Postby Sabindeus » Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:54 pm

I don't see how this affects pre-Cata because the change won't happen until Cataclysm is released.
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Re: Block Cap now unreasonable pre-cata?

Postby Non » Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:58 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:
Arincia wrote:With the 5% block value meta and the recent changes to HS adding 10% block value a block would then be only 55% physical damage taken.

The way the block meta gem is working right now it'll make you block for 42%, not 45%. Or at least what I last heard was it was changing the 30% to 31.5% (thus applying multiplicatively).


If you want to see +5% static blockvalue try the t8 4set bonus.
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Re: Block Cap now unreasonable pre-cata?

Postby Arincia » Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:14 pm

Do you know where i could check the source at on how it was determined to be for the meta? (mainly so i can make sure i am doing this multiplication correct. Cause if its done how i think its done to get 31.3% block value on 1% meta gem that means 5% meta should be either 46.5 or 47% block value.)
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Re: Block Cap now unreasonable pre-cata?

Postby AriKT » Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:06 am

Arincia wrote:Do you know where i could check the source at on how it was determined to be for the meta? (mainly so i can make sure i am doing this multiplication correct. Cause if its done how i think its done to get 31.3% block value on 1% meta gem that means 5% meta should be either 46.5 or 47% block value.)


I believe he meant the 5% Meta made 30% -> 31.5% which is 30% * 105%. I don't think he was talking about a 1% BV meta. However, I believe he is wrong about how it works and that its +5% BV, so 30% -> 35%.
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Re: Block Cap now unreasonable pre-cata?

Postby KysenMurrin » Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:52 am

Guess I should have been less lazy and got the evidence.

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5% meta gem has increased my character sheet block by 1%.
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Re: Block Cap now unreasonable pre-cata?

Postby AriKT » Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:15 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:Guess I should have been less lazy and got the evidence.

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5% meta gem has increased my character sheet block by 1%.


Its a bug. Find someone to make you a 1% BV meta from level 80. It will show the same thing.
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Re: Block Cap now unreasonable pre-cata?

Postby Protigy » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:48 pm

Sabindeus wrote:I don't see how this affects pre-Cata because the change won't happen until Cataclysm is released.

^ this.

@Donpablo: The only way this will affect anyone pre-Cata will be the week prior to release and only those planning to level as Prot (regarding questing, it will be inefficient unless you're in Ret gear because you can no longer BC mob grind and Ret will kill things faster). The main decision for those will be gear swapping and firming up leveling plans - to which a lot will most likely go for Ret for the sake of faster questing unless you have a set 5-man dungeon grind group.

Even then, you will basically still be reforging Mastery upon release unless you need +Hit or +Exp. The gear gained while leveling will probably not be reforged unless you are taking the time to visit Reforgers.
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Re: Block Cap now unreasonable pre-cata?

Postby Awyndel » Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:21 am

Yeah it seems these changes will make mastery better then avoidance very early on. But the real question will be if it will be more interesting then stamina, when we try to reach that cap. It really depends on the spike potential, and magic damage. It is probably blizzards intention that we stack stamina instead, but if they can pull that off, who knows. I personally hope so, otherwise we will be the only guys who need to get a weird gear setup, and roll on every item twice in case there is a magic fight.
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