Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

Postby Sabindeus » Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:19 am

Shield of the Righteous with 3 Holy Power does 3660 + 60% AP Holy Damage

can we move on now
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

Postby Malthrax » Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:49 am

Sabindeus wrote:Holy Crusader's Shield of the Wrathful Righteous Hammer-Strike with 3 Holy Power Combo Points of Goodness and Light does 3660 + 60% AP Holy Damage


fixed.
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

Postby Thyre » Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:50 am

You think this is enough compared to the very short CD of Shieldslam + s/b proccs ?

Numbers are not 100% right but it was something like

SS 1800 + 60% AP with a 6 sek CD and s/b proccs reducing the short cd even more

vs

SoR 3600 + 60% AP 3 HoPow (min 9 sek CD more if encounter desgin make it impossible to cs every 3 sek)

2 k more damage and skaling will make SoR even worsen compared to SS in the futur.
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

Postby Flex » Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:05 am

Thyre wrote:You think this is enough compared to the very short CD of Shieldslam + s/b proccs ?

Numbers are not 100% right but it was something like

SS 1800 + 60% AP with a 6 sek CD and s/b proccs reducing the short cd even more

vs

SoR 3600 + 60% AP 3 HoPow (min 9 sek CD more if encounter desgin make it impossible to cs every 3 sek)

2 k more damage and skaling will make SoR even worsen compared to SS in the futur.


One of those is reduced by armor, the other is not.
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

Postby Thyre » Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:42 am

Just dosent feel good to me atm but we will see of cource. Overall i guess i just think SS + s/b wiht a 6 Sek cd is just better designed than SoR 3 HoPow. Remember. If you can t reach a boss for a few sec the hidden CD of SoR increases even more. Same situation your SS would easy come off CD.

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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

Postby theckhd » Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:32 am

Fenris wrote:So,if not right now somewhere down the ap-scaling line,SoR VS inquisition just got totally unbalanced,or am i missing something?

if they were kind of balanced before,cutting ap-scaling to half of what it was should have an effect...Even with the baseline "buff"


Actually, the mechanics are sort of opposite of your intuition. As ShoR damage gets larger relative to everything else, using Inquisition gets worse and worse. To put it in mathematical terms, casting Inq gets you 30% of a ShoR from overlap plus 30% of all of the other Holy damage you produce during its effect, or:

Inq=0.3*ShoR+0.3*(everything else).

For it to be better than just casting another ShoR, we need that damage to exceed one ShoR:

Inq>ShoR

Substituting in and combining terms, we'd get:

0.3*(everything else) > 0.7*ShoR

If ShoR increases in size with AP faster than everything else (which it did), then there's no way that Inq scaling will ever improve with gear. I suspect that even this nerf isn't enough to do the job, because 0.3*(everything else) would need to scale with over 42% of AP to keep the ratio constant. So I doubt this had anything to do with Inq/ShoR interactions.

More likely, this was to address a different issue. My guess is that they didn't like how wildly ShoR varies between a 5-mans and raids (i.e. Vengeance). This change makes ShoR stronger in 5-mans and weaker in raids, which reduces the fluctuations.
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

Postby Flex » Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:35 am

theckhd wrote:More likely, this was to address a different issue. My guess is that they didn't like how wildly ShoR varies between a 5-mans and raids (i.e. Vengeance). This change makes ShoR stronger in 5-mans and weaker in raids, which reduces the fluctuations.


They stated what the issue was, Warrior and Paladin DPS while tanking was too high so they reduced the major AP scaling ability.
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

Postby KysenMurrin » Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:39 am

What was said was "numbers became absurdly large with a lot of AP, especially under the effects of Vengeance, dwarfing the damage done by druid or DK tanks". That is about tank damage being too high, but it's specifically too high because the damage scales too widely betwen low and high Vengeance.
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

Postby steadypal » Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:49 am

is it wrong that my pally on lives shield slam is hitting for the same amount as my 85 premade ?


this was critting on a test dummy with only might
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:55 am

steadypal wrote:is it wrong that my pally on lives shield slam is hitting for the same amount as my 85 premade ?


this was critting on a test dummy with only might


yes, because on live, ShoR hits for double damage vis a vis beta numbers.
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

Postby steadypal » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:04 pm

k, well then, is it wrong my lvl 80 on betas shield slam is hitting for roughly the same amount as my lvl 85 :P

you would think our shield slam should scale a little bit with those HUGE 5 lvl diffrence..
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

Postby Fenris » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:47 pm

theckhd wrote:
Fenris wrote:So,if not right now somewhere down the ap-scaling line,SoR VS inquisition just got totally unbalanced,or am i missing something?

if they were kind of balanced before,cutting ap-scaling to half of what it was should have an effect...Even with the baseline "buff"


Actually, the mechanics are sort of opposite of your intuition.
*mega-snip*

Ok,makes sense number-wise
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

Postby theckhd » Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:55 pm

Fenris wrote:Ok,makes sense number-wise

If it makes you feel better, the Devs can't seem to get this right either, given that they keep giving us the "We're concerned about ShoR+Inq overlap" excuse.

:P
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

Postby seigert » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:08 pm

theckhd wrote:
Fenris wrote:Ok,makes sense number-wise

If it makes you feel better, the Devs can't seem to get this right either, given that they keep giving us the "We're concerned about ShoR+Inq overlap" excuse.

:P


They may get this right. But they also may think, that many-many new or unexperienced players, which do not read knaughty's F.A.Q.s or your matlab threads and conclusions will "intuitively" think that "ShoR+Inq overlap" is a threat increase. And will be wronged.
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:30 pm

Yeah, but the Inq+ShoR overlap being a loss is only in single target scenarios, right?
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