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Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

SPOILERS Discussion about the Cataclysm Beta SPOILERS

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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

Postby Neptuno » Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:48 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:Static damage on abilities is brilliant. Brilliant, I tell yous.


I hear that Hammer of Wrath has static damage listed... and it sure hit for a lot more than those listed values... would love to see the actual values when it hits beta
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

Postby theckhd » Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:49 pm

M.C. wrote:I assume this means Theck will have to re-analyze just about everything now. Glyphs, talents, rotation both below and above 20% health... possibly weapon comparison, too.

I was going to have to re-analyze everything for 85 anyhow, so that's not really much of a change. This is on beta, remember, not on live.
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

Postby M.C. » Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:51 pm

theckhd wrote:
M.C. wrote:I assume this means Theck will have to re-analyze just about everything now. Glyphs, talents, rotation both below and above 20% health... possibly weapon comparison, too.

I was going to have to re-analyze everything for 85 anyhow, so that's not really much of a change. This is on beta, remember, not on live.

Ugh. True, I forgot that part. I wonder if they make any of these changes go live in the remaining weeks before Cataclysm?

...Nah, probably not.
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

Postby steadypal » Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:07 pm

why dont they realize that vengeance is flawed and mess with that instead of nerf everything because of that...
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

Postby Jonlo » Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:09 pm

From Ghostcrawler:

We changed Shield Slam and Shield of the Righteous to do more base damage and scale less with AP. This was to fix a problem where numbers became absurdly large with a lot of AP, especially under the effects of Vengeance, dwarfing the damage done by druid or DK tanks. With these changes, a tank in heroic dungeon blues should deal the same damage with no Vengeance, but Vengeance will have less of an impact.

The coefficient for Shield of the Righteous was lowered from 120% to 60% at 3 Holy Power. The coefficient for Shield Slam was lowered from 75% to 60%.

We buffed Word of Glory base points for Holy paladins. We nerfed the Ret and Prot talents to keep it about the same for them.
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:18 pm

steadypal wrote:why dont they realize that vengeance is flawed and mess with that instead of nerf everything because of that...


Because, as flawed as it is, it's the only thing that helps tank TPS scale somehow to keep ahead of the DPS (that does not come from gear). It's basically The Red Queen's Race: "it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place"
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

Postby Arincia » Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:46 pm

They should have just made vengeance static instead of ramping up but for a lesser amount (so say constant 5-7% instead of a ramp up to 10%) then it would much easier to tune. Could be simple to just disable it while in arenas or BGs then. Anyways all been said before so my personal rants over now.
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

Postby Neptuno » Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:56 pm

Klaudandus wrote:
steadypal wrote:why dont they realize that vengeance is flawed and mess with that instead of nerf everything because of that...


Because, as flawed as it is, it's the only thing that helps tank TPS scale somehow to keep ahead of the DPS (that does not come from gear). It's basically The Red Queen's Race: "it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place"


well, the scaling is still based on gear... it's just on HP instead of STR. i think they should just disable it in pvp and slow the fall off rate a little.
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

Postby Arincia » Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:54 pm

Going back to thecks suggestion long ago (i think it was theck) just have vengeance be a % of hp per hit and after X hits its capped out. Say 1% or 2% of hp as ap per hit. Then after 5-10 hits your capped so its easier to get there then and avoidance is less harder on keeping it maxed out.
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

Postby Fenris » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:13 am

So,if not right now somewhere down the ap-scaling line,SoR VS inquisition just got totally unbalanced,or am i missing something?

if they were kind of balanced before,cutting ap-scaling to half of what it was should have an effect...Even with the baseline "buff"
Last edited by Fenris on Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

Postby mclem » Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:42 am

steadypal wrote:hammer of wrath seems to have gotten nerfed, it was quite OP for a week or 2, lol, our tank SEAL dmg got buffed, but our 5stack hit, got slighty nerfed by 1%, guess blizz doesnt want to distinguish our tanking seal, between truth and insight unless they buff the crap out of truth imo, make us not care about the weak dmg it does for more survivabilty.. warrior shield slam got buffed by 125%


At the moment I'm thinking the attractiveness of Truth has nothing to do with the spell itself, and everything to do with the Glyph.
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

Postby Neptuno » Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:49 am

mclem wrote:At the moment I'm thinking the attractiveness of Truth has nothing to do with the spell itself, and everything to do with the Glyph.


Yep, 10 expertise at pull... once threat is solidified, switching to insight as a few parrys won't matter then as much as ShoR vs WoG
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

Postby stevos » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:29 am

Isn't the changes to our shield slam (SoR) is going to hit our scaling quiet badly. At the minute its the main heavy hitter for single targets with 3 holy power. If it doesn't scale anymore with AP how is this going to work once we get into full tier11 or 12?

Also this is going to hit our OT ability (such as the period of a tank switching fight we aren't tanking), since we don't be getting the benefit from Vengence (not getting hit). Does that mean we won't be able to compete dps wise against a prot pala/dk/bear?

Hard to say but I am not keen on a main hitting ability that doesn't scale with gear. Seems like a blockvalue mark2, starts off good at starter Naxx level gear but by the time you have reasonable Naxx gear its a bit average and hit ulduar and its pretty useless.
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

Postby seigert » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:51 am

stevos wrote:If it doesn't scale anymore with AP how is this going to work once we get into full tier11 or 12?


why dont just read the thread in before posting.
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Re: Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

Postby stevos » Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:02 am

seigert wrote:
stevos wrote:If it doesn't scale anymore with AP how is this going to work once we get into full tier11 or 12?


why dont just read the thread in before posting.


I did read the thread through, will reread it, must have misread something i guess.

EDIT: missed the GC clarification of the issue.
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