Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:08 am

Just updated the ability damage post:
Code: Select all
                Damage
Ability    Raw    Net  Glyph
CS        4709   4339   4534
HotR       615    567    624
HaNova    4133   3651   3651


So given that glyphed HotR+HaNova < unglyphed CS, CS should be our go-to for single targets. If they fix the HotR glyph or T10 2-piece such that they affect the Nova portion, then the story will change again.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby AriKT » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:03 pm

Wonder if 4.0.1a fixed some of the bugged Glyphs. I believe that the DP glyph was totally busted on Saturday. It was reducing physical and magical damage by a whole 0%. I unglyphed it after a few deaths due to taking full Sindy Breaths, and Soul Reapers.

Also, could someone that can log in see if our Mastery got bumped to Beta version? I'm impatient and can't get on for a few hours.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:26 pm

AriKT wrote:Also, could someone that can log in see if our Mastery got bumped to Beta version? I'm impatient and can't get on for a few hours.

Block does not appear to have been buffed yet. Mastery tooltip is unchanged and my character sheet shows the same amount of block.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby daiceman » Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:16 pm

AriKT wrote:Wonder if 4.0.1a fixed some of the bugged Glyphs. I believe that the DP glyph was totally busted on Saturday. It was reducing physical and magical damage by a whole 0%. I unglyphed it after a few deaths due to taking full Sindy Breaths, and Soul Reapers.


The new glyph only increases the mana return on DP, it is no longer supposed to reduce our incoming damage.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Meloree » Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:21 pm

daiceman wrote:
AriKT wrote:Wonder if 4.0.1a fixed some of the bugged Glyphs. I believe that the DP glyph was totally busted on Saturday. It was reducing physical and magical damage by a whole 0%. I unglyphed it after a few deaths due to taking full Sindy Breaths, and Soul Reapers.


The new glyph only increases the mana return on DP, it is no longer supposed to reduce our incoming damage.


D(ivine) P(rotection)
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:27 pm

Did a not-very-scientific test in Ironforge. The fire there doesn't tick hard enough for this to be conclusive, but:

Normal ticks: Varied 9-14, usually 11-13
With unglyphed Divine Protection: About 8-10 damage ticks
With glyphed Divine Protection: 6-8 damage ticks.

The tooltip still says "Reduces all damage by 0%."

Edit: Tried a few more times. Never seen a tick above 8 with glyphed Divine Protection active, and never seen a tick below 9 without it active.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:13 pm

All of the simulations have been updated on the front page.

Notable changes:
-Gear set added to front page
-Corrected ability damage formulas (including HoW)
-Sub-20% rotations added (ShoR>CS>J>HoW is the winner)
-Crusade down slightly, SotP up slightly
-HotR glyph now sucks (which we knew, but now the sims accurately reflect that)
-CS buff made the CS glyph better
-A bunch of new weapons in the weapon sim
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby knaughty » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:42 pm

theckhd wrote:All of the simulations have been updated on the front page.

Notable changes:
-Gear set added to front page
-Corrected ability damage formulas (including HoW)
-Sub-20% rotations added (ShoR>CS>J>HoW is the winner)
-Crusade down slightly, SotP up slightly
-HotR glyph now sucks (which we knew, but now the sims accurately reflect that)
-CS buff made the CS glyph better
-A bunch of new weapons in the weapon sim


Noted. Will update FAQ to reflect changes.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Kishi » Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:28 am

theckhd wrote:Glyph Comparison

...
Code: Select all
Expertise   SoT Value (relative)
0-16          1
16-26         1-(exp-16)/10
26-46         1/2
46-56         1/2-(exp-46)/10

...


Found a small error while looking through the front page:

Using 16-26 with exp=26 results in a relative value of 1-(26-16)/10 = 0
Using 46-56 with exp=56 results in a relative value of 1/2-(56-46)/10 = -1/2

Changing "/10" to "/20" in both formulae gives correct values for the described behaviour.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Awyndel » Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:40 am

Really nice job with the updates. Really appreciate the weapon graph, it's very clear now. Swapping hotr glyph with CS :D .

One question though. Are we not jumping on the 22 expertise ( 95 rating with glyph ) boat? Or are these graphs for 85?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Magnusharkov » Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:48 am

theckhd wrote:All of the simulations have been updated on the front page.

Notable changes:
-Gear set added to front page
-Corrected ability damage formulas (including HoW)
-Sub-20% rotations added (ShoR>CS>J>HoW is the winner)
-Crusade down slightly, SotP up slightly
-HotR glyph now sucks (which we knew, but now the sims accurately reflect that)
-CS buff made the CS glyph better
-A bunch of new weapons in the weapon sim


Thanks for the outstanding work Theck, it's appreciated!

I don't know if it's within the scope of your simulator but I would be interested to see the results on HPS/DPS and TPS by going for a "Maximum Self Healing" spec and rotation:
Speccing for Gbtl,Eternal Glory,Divinty and importantly Protector of the Innocent
Glyphing WoG and Seal of Insight
Tanking using Seal of Insight
Rotation of simply CSx1, WoGx1, repeat.

The reason I mention this rotation is that as far as I know it's the maximum possible way of self healing as WoG scales linearly with holy power plus you get the poti heal. With EG procs, crits and other buffs I'd expect to see at least an average of 10k self healing every other GCD not including seal of insight.

I know this is a gimmick setup but I'm curious as to how much healing we may be able to do plus quite importantly how much threat all this healing can do!

edit: my napkin maths suggests upwards of 4k healing per second but thats very rough
Last edited by Magnusharkov on Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby AriKT » Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:33 am

KysenMurrin wrote:Did a not-very-scientific test in Ironforge. The fire there doesn't tick hard enough for this to be conclusive, but:

Normal ticks: Varied 9-14, usually 11-13
With unglyphed Divine Protection: About 8-10 damage ticks
With glyphed Divine Protection: 6-8 damage ticks.

The tooltip still says "Reduces all damage by 0%."

Edit: Tried a few more times. Never seen a tick above 8 with glyphed Divine Protection active, and never seen a tick below 9 without it active.


All I know was I was eating 63K Soul Reaper DoT Ticks with it glyphed, and about 50K when I removed the glyph.

This was on Saturday, it was working on Friday.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Treck » Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:49 am

Soul Reaper is Shadowstrike dmg.
Thus if you reduce your dmg taken from magic sources to much, the SR hit will become physical.
DP glyph for SR is a bad idea.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:02 am

Kishi wrote:
theckhd wrote:Glyph Comparison
Code: Select all
Expertise   SoT Value (relative)
0-16          1
16-26         1-(exp-16)/10
26-46         1/2
46-56         1/2-(exp-46)/10



Found a small error while looking through the front page:

Using 16-26 with exp=26 results in a relative value of 1-(26-16)/10 = 0
Using 46-56 with exp=56 results in a relative value of 1/2-(56-46)/10 = -1/2

Changing "/10" to "/20" in both formulae gives correct values for the described behaviour.


Thanks for catching that typo, I'll go back and fix it shortly.

Awyndel wrote:One question though. Are we not jumping on the 22 expertise ( 95 rating with glyph ) boat? Or are these graphs for 85?

These graphs are for level 80. I've just assumed the "proper" functioning of the expertise formula, figuring that they'll fix the bug sooner or later. I saw a post on EJ last night that it was fixed, but they didn't provide any proof, so who knows.

If it's still bugged, the formulas above will be slightly off, but using (12-22) as the range for the first formula should correct it for most of the cases we're interested in.

Magnusharkov wrote:I don't know if it's within the scope of your simulator but I would be interested to see the results on HPS/DPS and TPS by going for a "Maximum Self Healing" spec and rotation:
Speccing for Gbtl,Eternal Glory,Divinty and importantly Protector of the Innocent
Glyphing WoG and Seal of Insight
Tanking using Seal of Insight
Rotation of simply CSx1, WoGx1, repeat.


I could, but there's very little reason to run a simulation for that system since it's so static. You're literally casting nothing but CS and WoG, and since you're using SoI your only other damage source will be melee attacks.

So your DPS output will simply be (CS damage)/3+(melee dps). You get around 1k DPS from melee swings (954 in the simulations, but that obviously changes with weapon, and for SoI you'd probably want a higher-dps 2.6-speed weapon) and 4715/3 = 1572 DPS from Crusader Strikes. With a slower weapon, you could reasonably reach about 3k DPS (9k TPS) total with just those two sources of damage.

Eternal Glory can be approximated as making each WoG ~30% larger in this system, because if it procs you just get an "extra" WoG out of the next WoG cast. That will be a slight over-estimate since it doesn't account for 3 EG procs in a row (about a 2.7% chance of that occurring).

As for the self-healing, I don't know the WoG healing formula offhand, but you should be able to calculate the average WoG self-heal and the average amount added from PotI. The healing per second would just be

((average WoG)*1.3+(average PotI))/(3 seconds) + (SoI HPS)

SoI HPS should be estimated from parses, or if you know the PPM (I don't offhand) you could calculate out an exact proc rate based on weapon speed.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby AriKT » Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:14 am

Treck wrote:Soul Reaper is Shadowstrike dmg.
Thus if you reduce your dmg taken from magic sources to much, the SR hit will become physical.
DP glyph for SR is a bad idea.


Pretty sure my physical damage reduction from armor is more than 40%.
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