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Word of Glory - OP?

SPOILERS Discussion about the Cataclysm Beta SPOILERS

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Word of Glory - OP?

Postby towelliee » Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:01 pm

Well I decided on my Cho'gall attempts today to use Word of Glory instead of sotr in some attempts and use sotr in others. I even did a few attempts where I only used sotr if SD was up if it wasn't I WoG. And I tell you with full Vengeance WoG is quite OP. I healed myself for 50-60k on some occassions in tight situations. It's almsot like having a small CD up every 12 seconds as long as you are 85% +

Also note I kept a 30k tps consistently without using sotr and no one ever came close to me in TPS.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-fr4e50srf92g446x/log/

Did a query for me as the source and WoG as the spell.
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Re: Word of Glory - OP?

Postby d503 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:21 pm

Could this be the culprit of your 30k TPS? http://goo.gl/lw7X

Also, seems pretty OP. I've just begun playing with WoG heavy builds (unfortunately dropping Crusade), and I think they're going to end up being pretty powerful, especially considering PotI.
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Re: Word of Glory - OP?

Postby towelliee » Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:36 pm

We also need to make sure that the AP coefficient for the heal isn't affected by Vengeance.


THIS is the issue. With 14k AP those might be the 40-60k heals.
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Re: Word of Glory - OP?

Postby Zhuel » Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:20 pm

I believe that Ghost Crawler already said they don't want vengeance working with WG. I would expect a change sooner or later.
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Re: Word of Glory - OP?

Postby AriKT » Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:56 pm

I'm pretty sure it doesn't scale with Vengeance AP on Live, and if it does then its by a very small amount.

With full Vengeance most of the time on H LK this week, the biggest I saw was a 17K heal without Wings or Guardian Spirit on me.

And lol, your Holy Radiance healing is no slouch either. I'm gonna love that spell when we get it on live.
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Re: Word of Glory - OP?

Postby PsiVen » Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:01 pm

Yeah, WoG is pretty ridiculous atm and there's no reason not to spam it since threat is a joke. No sign of them fixing SoI tanking either.
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Re: Word of Glory - OP?

Postby towelliee » Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:18 pm

PsiVen wrote:Yeah, WoG is pretty ridiculous atm and there's no reason not to spam it since threat is a joke. No sign of them fixing SoI tanking either.


Don't tell me SoL tanking gives crazy threat again like it did in 3.0 lol
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Re: Word of Glory - OP?

Postby Minarva » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:05 am

Nope, more like seal of truth isn't that big a deal. Seal of Insight is a hefty heal over a fight actually.
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Re: Word of Glory - OP?

Postby Dhalphir » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:54 am

I would think simply making WoG threat not affected by Righteous Fury would be more than enough to ensure that its a threat trade-off.

I like the idea of using WoG to create some incidental healing aggro to guard against things like players buffing while a mob hasn't reached you yet, but it shouldn't actually be a viable threat generating ability at 85 given that we have Inquisition as our finisher move in AOE situations.
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Re: Word of Glory - OP?

Postby theckhd » Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:45 am

WoG and other heals are currently only causing 25% threat on live, not sure whether that's true on the beta or not.

I was also under the impression that WoG didn't scale with Vengeance AP, but again, that might be implemented on Live but not on beta.

Either way, our threat is pretty ridiculous with full Vengeance right now, which is the real problem here. Vengeance makes it so that we don't care about threat on bosses, so we can use HP on WoG. However, they can't just nerf the RF threat coefficient because under most other conditions (5-mans, soloing) we don't have any Vengeance AP.

The problem really lies with Vengeance itself - it causes too large of a swing in our threat output from 5-mans to raid tanking. They could probably get away with nerfing it to 5% of total health and reducing the decay constant slightly so that it builds up higher in 5-mans and doesn't cause such a large swing on a raid boss.
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Re: Word of Glory - OP?

Postby Flex » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:33 am

theckhd wrote:However, they can't just nerf the RF threat coefficient because under most other conditions (5-mans, soloing) we don't have any Vengeance AP.


They could do fancy stuff like...the default RF is 200% threat increase at 0% Vengeance but at 100% Vengeance it is just a 50% threat increase.
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Re: Word of Glory - OP?

Postby AriKT » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:45 am

Has WoG threat been tested? I know testing was done on some heals and their threat and showed the .25 Paladin modifier still in place. However, oddly my Paladin healers tend to pull aggro on adds more than the others, even at lower HPS.
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Re: Word of Glory - OP?

Postby Flex » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:49 am

AriKT wrote:However, oddly my Paladin healers tend to pull aggro on adds more than the others, even at lower HPS.


My Ret/Holy Paladin can be sitting around doing nothing and I'll get aggro on freshly spawned mobs, tank Thunderclaps and I'll see every one give me an aggro changed warning. I have no idea what it is, might be the sexy tail.
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Re: Word of Glory - OP?

Postby Zhuel » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:43 am

This post is troublesome. Especially when you combine it with this thread on the offical forums: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 0692&sid=1.

The way Toweliee post makes it sound like Paladin tanks are OP, but it's conflicts with the rest of the thread which basically says Dk>bear>>>Paladin>Warrior. What's really OP here? It almost sounds like vengeance is OP.

Here are the things of note:

- WoG is OP while tanking. How about ablitities like deathstrike and savage defence? Don't these all scale with Atk Power? How much are they healing for or preventing.

- It seems like tank dps is high. Towliee indicates he's in the top 3 while tanking. Is this the case for all tanks that MT and get high vengeance?
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Re: Word of Glory - OP?

Postby Flex » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:46 am

Zhuel wrote:This post is troublesome. Especially when you combine it with this thread on the offical forums: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 0692&sid=1.


The official forum is nothing but a circle jerk of 4 to 5 warriors bemoaning the fact that they are the worst tanks at 85.
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