Are the Valkyrs Faster Now?

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Are the Valkyrs Faster Now?

Postby Nimaothar » Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:54 am

Hey all! Thank you SO MUCH for all of the math behind the theorycrafting to help get my tankadin to be the best that it can be...all I am missing now is my Kingslayer title (never thought I would be saying that phrase 5 months ago, server transfer was the best 175 I ever spent (4 of my chars and 3 of my wife's), but I digress...

Finally at the Lich King for Week 2 now after regaining our raid lockout. Our group gets to phase 2 easy enough, but from there it goes haywire. I would love any and all advice...thanks!

The Setup:
Warrior-MT (73k health)
Paladin- OT (73k health)

Unholy DK (averages 6500-7k dps)
Arms Warrior (Who's been told she should go back to Fury? Averages 5-6k)

Shadow Priest (averages 6500-7k dps)
Destro Warlock (averages 7-7500 dps)
Marksmanship Hunter with Wolf (depending on necrotic will average 6000-7k dps, still trying to see how to maximize her more)

Resto Shaman
Resto Druid
Holy Paladin

Phase 1: Piece of cake, I figured out how to keep the trash on me to take out shamblings, DPS seems fine.

Phase 1.5: Necrotic plague issues diminishing, raging spirits handled well, I always grab the last raging before Phase 2. Sometimes have issues of new ice balls spawn JUST as we move back to the platform.

Phase 2:
Valk comes down, all CC/stun goes off (should we have a sequence[frost trap, chains, hammer, hamstring, shackles]?), Valk could care less and drops party member off the edge(down 1 DPS or heal), do we REALLY need a rogue instead of the warrior to control stuns?

Still having issues with party focusing on killing the last raging I am tanking before the defile (forgot about netherweave nets, I'll have the tailors add that to the repertoire). Warrior is working on taking multiple soul reapers, I will use hand of sacrifice to give him a 3rd absorb...

Is our DPS high enough? Everyone is in mostly 264 gear (which is now pushed back due to not being able to raid 10/25 at the same time since this week, but that's another story).

So close to completing this encounter, even after losing our raid lock on Tuesday...all other thoughts and advice greatly appreciated.
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Re: Are the Valkyrs Faster Now?

Postby Belloc » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:51 am

The valks are not faster at all. They need to be slowed and stunned until they are dead. It sounds like your DPS is switching too slowly or isn't putting out the numbers. If the valks aren't dying, tell your DPS to head over to Elitistjerks.com and learn how to play their class a bit better. If the valks are dropping people over the edge, your DPS will really just need to improve their numbers and reaction. What kind of gearscores do your DPS have? Honestly, 7k dps is low, even in 10-man ICC gear.

Netherweave nets will not work on valks or ragings, as they are immune to roots.
Last edited by Belloc on Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Are the Valkyrs Faster Now?

Postby Thark » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:12 am

I assume you're talking about 10 man?

As the paladin tank in this scenario, if you're not tanking the Lich King, you can very effectively control the Val'kyr. Spec 2 points into Imp Hammer of Justice (with just one point, you can't reliably stun them now) and use the glyph of shield dazing. When a Val'kyr spawns, target it and use your Hammer of Justice. When the Val'kyr becomes unstunned, you can use your Avenger's Shield to slow it down. You can also apply Holy Wrath for another small stun if necessary. If you can keep the Val'kyr stunned/slowed for that long and it's still not dead, then either your DPS is not switching or needs to pick it up a bit.

Also, be sure that your raid is positioned properly. You want to have your raid standing near the center (Not in the center) but positioned to one side so that you know which direction the Val'kyr is going to head. This lets you all be stacked up together where the Val'kyr spawns, and ensures that it does not pick up someone standing near the edge.
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Re: Are the Valkyrs Faster Now?

Postby Belloc » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:45 am

Thark wrote:I assume you're talking about 10 man?

As the paladin tank in this scenario, if you're not tanking the Lich King, you can very effectively control the Val'kyr. Spec 2 points into Imp Hammer of Justice (with just one point, you can't reliably stun them now) and use the glyph of shield dazing. When a Val'kyr spawns, target it and use your Hammer of Justice. When the Val'kyr becomes unstunned, you can use your Avenger's Shield to slow it down. You can also apply Holy Wrath for another small stun if necessary. If you can keep the Val'kyr stunned/slowed for that long and it's still not dead, then either your DPS is not switching or needs to pick it up a bit.

Also, be sure that your raid is positioned properly. You want to have your raid standing near the center (Not in the center) but positioned to one side so that you know which direction the Val'kyr is going to head. This lets you all be stacked up together where the Val'kyr spawns, and ensures that it does not pick up someone standing near the edge.

Excellent advice on the stun spec, but keep in mind that Avenger's Shield does not slow by default anymore. You have to glyph for it.
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Re: Are the Valkyrs Faster Now?

Postby Arianne » Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:50 am

Other people should not be using any stuns if you're controlling the Valk stuns. If you have multiple stuns going off at once then you're making the Valk stun immune. As it is, you can stun them 3 times before they become stun immune. I use HoJ as soon as it comes down. Then I use HW when it reaches the ring around the center. Usually I can HW as it reaches the edge (as long as your slows are good). Each stun diminishes by half each time you do it, so you want to use your longest stun first so you have the most DPS time.

Make sure that your ranged aren't running to the same spot when they're running out after Valk so that they don't all have to move if a defile gets dropped on a ranged person. Make sure that your melee are standing to one side so that they don't drop the defile on the Valk or on the Valk path.

If you want to have your warrior help out, then you should use HoJ as it comes down, then the warrior should use concussion blow as it gets to the ring, then the warrior should use shockwave as it gets out of the ring.
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Re: Are the Valkyrs Faster Now?

Postby Dhalphir » Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:37 pm

If your top DPS is doing 7k dps in Icecrown Citadel your DPS players suck.

I'm sorry, I don't mean it to sound that disparaging, but I can't think of a better way to say that they really really must suck.

Fix their DPS and your issues with Valks will fix themselves.

Its also possible there isn't a slow up on the Valk 100% of the time, which is super important.
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Re: Are the Valkyrs Faster Now?

Postby Teranoid » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:07 pm

Nimaothar wrote:Phase 2:
Valk comes down, all CC/stun goes off


Problem #1: Blowing all your CC makes them immune before they even get out of the first stun.


Still having issues with party focusing on killing the last raging I am tanking before the defile (forgot about netherweave nets, I'll have the tailors add that to the repertoire). Warrior is working on taking multiple soul reapers, I will use hand of sacrifice to give him a 3rd absorb...


Problem #2: Your co-tank has to eat 3 Reapers while a raging is up? Yeah.. that's not supposed to happen. Defiles are a quick "its on me move" and then back to burning down the remaining Raging or back on LK

Is our DPS high enough? Everyone is in mostly 264 gear (which is now pushed back due to not being able to raid 10/25 at the same time since this week, but that's another story).


In a word. No. Hell no. No offense to your raid but my shitty warlock with 4pc T9 and a few ilvl 200 trinks and such was doing almost that much pre 4.0 with the 30%. If your raid is mostly ICC 25 geared there is some serious fail going on even for a fight that requires that much awareness and movement. Your dps are slacking big time and until they stop sucking its not going to get better.
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Re: Are the Valkyrs Faster Now?

Postby blakk » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:20 pm

Dhalphir wrote:If your top DPS is doing 7k dps in Icecrown Citadel your DPS players suck.

I'm sorry, I don't mean it to sound that disparaging, but I can't think of a better way to say that they really really must suck.

Fix their DPS and your issues with Valks will fix themselves.

Its also possible there isn't a slow up on the Valk 100% of the time, which is super important.

this. I would out damage your top dps and I'm in nearly full 264 tank gear. With a 30% buff under 10k as a dps is not knowing your class IMO.
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