Holydin advice wanted

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

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Holydin advice wanted

Postby Gigg » Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:28 am

So attended a few raids since the horrible 4.0 patch now. Noticed I’ve slipped down the healing list considerably since pre-patch.

Haven’t really tweaked anything on my char yet since the patch, plan is to find some time at weekend to do some reading and start fiddling with everything.

As a starting point I was hoping some fellow Holydins might share some of their wisdom on any tweaks/adjustments I should be making to my character now. Anything you have amended etc.

Just to give an idea of what my char is upto I’ve just started on ICC 25 HC content this week with a new guild. Up to putricide at the moment.

Links to my char are below, I’d be really grateful for any help!

Also if you have found any helpful guides/forums etc for holy pallies, would save me the google pain.

Many Thanks
Gigg

Armory http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet ... Giggitygoo

Wow Heroes http://www.wow-heroes.com/index.php?zon ... Giggitygoo
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Re: Holydin advice wanted

Postby sherck » Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:13 am

First, I want to say that I cannot look at your toons because my work is behind a firewall.

That being said, I have some "standard" responses that might help shape the direction you should be looking to go.

1. At level 80 mana costs, Divine Light spam (and FoL spam on Val) are viable healing options. They will not be at level 85 but at level 80, they are. So...

2. Haste matters. You can still obtain 3.x Paladin throughput levels on your assigned tank if you can do a Divine Light spam intermixed with Holy Shock on CD and then WoG on 3x HoPow. However, Divine Light is now a slow, slow spell so you will want to stack up the Haste in order to speed it up and make it as much throughput as possible. I think DiamondTear on the Elitist Jerks thread indicated that the new "soft-cap" for FoL capping was 1047 Haste rating to make FoL a 1.0 sec cast. Obviously, that is not capping your Divine Light but that is the point where the DR starts getting bad, apparently.

3. Also, our Spirit regen model is really pretty good now. You will want Spirit in order to extend your Divine Light spam. After I re-did my gear, I have 900 Spirit and have few mana issues. I wish I had 1200 Spirit but 900 was the highest I could get without sacrificing other stats badly.

4. Critical strike delivers very little back to us now. Obviously, it can make your heals bigger on a RNG basis and it can help make sure Conviction stays up for a 9% healing buff which is really, really nice.

However, even if you strip all the Crit off of our gear that you can via Reforging, you will still probably not drop below 20-25% Critical Strike and that is good enough to maintain Conviction.

5. So...this leads me to my first major point in that you want to reforge ALL of your Crit into either Haste or Spirit; whichever the piece does not currently have on it.

6. You also want to regem all your sockets with: Red = Brilliant (Int), Blue = Luminous (Int/Spirit), Yellow = Reckless (Int/Haste) in order to boost those 2 stats and get your socket bonuses.

7. Also, review your enchants. Got Icewalker on your boots? Change to Greater Spirit. Got SP on your bracers? Intellect delivers more now. How about Greater Restoration on Chest? Go for + 10 Stats.

8. Spec: Pretty standard tree that has very, very few non-main choices. There is a VERY interesting discussion on the Elitist Jerks Holy thread (last 5 pages) talking about that Blessed Life is delivering a very good amount of HoPow in ICC and that if you are not able to take advantage of the Tower mechanic due to how you are healing (max throughput = Beacon one tank and heal the OTHER tank) that some Healadins are not taking Tower because of it. Reduces their WoG generation but they are less concerned at 80 with efficiency than throughput.

I personally think that 6% healing and 20% Holy Shock buff are the way to go in off-trees.

9. Glyphs: SoI, WoG are pretty solid Primes. I go with Divine Favor over Holy Shock because I like the extra 10 sec of Haste/Crit buff on big damage phases (3rd Inhale) but to each his own.

Beacon is the only Major that I would say is a must have. The others all revolve around saving mana in some way and should fit your playstyle. Cleansing fights (LK) I put that one on sometimes but at level 80, saving mana really does not matter much.

Lay on Hands is mandatory for Minor glyphs. I run with the Blessing ones (Might/Kings) so that I can hit the battle rez people cheaper but it does not really matter.

10. Healing style. Yeah, I know that at level 85, our healing "rotation" will be Holy Shock, WoG at 3 HoPow and then fill in with Holy Light. Use expensive FoL and Divine Light as required to either hit someone quick (when HS and WoG are not available) or large (Divine Light). Use AoE heals when the encounter dictates.

But that style will typically not deliver enough throughput in a world where tanks can die inside of 3 GCDs (that will apparently not be the case in Cata). Divine Light spam is required in ICC (especially in Heroic modes) and should be used as such.

One of the most helpful blogs I have read about he 4.0 changes is kurn.apotheosis-now.com/

That is all of my general advice. I suspect your gear is very good if you got accepted into a guild doing 25HC so there is probably not much there in terms of pieces of gear to get. About the only thing I will remind you that you will want to have the 264 Libram for greater stats over the 200 Libram if you were still sporting that in your Holy Light set. Now that they are stat sticks, no reason not to have the highest I-Level one.

Cheers,
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Re: Holydin advice wanted

Postby Gigg » Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:41 am

Sherck. That sir is a post of epic quality.

If you were here I would shake your hand.

Thanks very much! :D
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Re: Holydin advice wanted

Postby Flex » Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:38 am

You can get by with FoL and Holy Light as your primary heals without ever casting a Divine Light.

FoL heals for around what my pre-4.0 Holy Light healed for.
Holy Light heals for about what my pre-4.0 FoL healed for.
Paladins did not have a comparable spell to Divine Light in the pre-4.0 world and it heals for what my pre-4.0 Holy Light crit for, so to me it is complete fluff in the current raid tier.

Last night in ICC10 our Holy Paladin used Divine Light 143 times, 132 of those were on the two pulls of Dreamwalker.
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Re: Holydin advice wanted

Postby Adryl » Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:35 pm

Flex wrote:You can get by with FoL and Holy Light as your primary heals without ever casting a Divine Light.

FoL heals for around what my pre-4.0 Holy Light healed for.
Holy Light heals for about what my pre-4.0 FoL healed for.
Paladins did not have a comparable spell to Divine Light in the pre-4.0 world and it heals for what my pre-4.0 Holy Light crit for, so to me it is complete fluff in the current raid tier.

Last night in ICC10 our Holy Paladin used Divine Light 143 times, 132 of those were on the two pulls of Dreamwalker.


^^^this is what I feel is about right. I myself very rarely use Div Light outside of rare circumstances on LK and throughout Dreamwalker. I norm use Holy shock as my go to, FoL for those quick needed large heals when HS is on CD, and Holy Light as a buffer heal in low dmg fights or phases. I use cone heal really only on LK when ranged gets Infest (or whatever its called I'm having a brain fart). The beauty of FoL, DI and HL is the proc that makes your Next HS have no CD. to me it is much better than the Pre-4.X talent that made HS proc a insta FoL. Now I also do not want to rule out Word of Glory. I use it every 3 holy power for that nice mana free heal. I never depend on it due to I'm not 100% paying attention to my holy power charges and I opted out of the 30% free WoG talent in favor of the 20% boost to HS.
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Re: Holydin advice wanted

Postby Amirya » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:29 am

Adryl wrote:I use Light of Dawn really only on LK when ranged gets Infest and aren't scattered like autumn leaves in the wind.

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Re: Holydin advice wanted

Postby kennywu » Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:53 am

One nice trick I've been using lately deals with the Tower talent. Before the pull, beacon the tank that's pulling and hit him with 3 Holy Lights to generate 3 charges of Holy Power. Then, right as he engages the boss, hit the tank with a Word of Glory. Through our mastery, the tank should have a nice bubble on the pull. Also, I reforge all my extra crit into haste>mastery.
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Re: Holydin advice wanted

Postby Eltiana » Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:33 am

2 points in Blazing light...why? Should move them into Enlightened Judgements, Blazing light only increases the damage of Holy shock, not the healing, making it rather useless in a PVE holy build, unless you were going for some weird exorcism build which it doesn't look like you are.
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Re: Holydin advice wanted

Postby sherck » Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:34 am

Eltiana wrote:2 points in Blazing light...why? Should move them into Enlightened Judgements, Blazing light only increases the damage of Holy shock, not the healing, making it rather useless in a PVE holy build, unless you were going for some weird exorcism build which it doesn't look like you are.


Ummmm, I am assuming that you are referring to my "20% Holy Shock buff" that I mention in the talents section?

That is the Ret tier 1 talent Crusade that increases both the damage AND healing of Holy Shock by 10% per talent point, not Blazing Light in the Holy tree.

For level 80, you need to put 31 pts in Holy. My suggestion for the last 5 points is 3 in Divinity for a 6% across the board healing buff and then 2 pts in ret in Crusade to give a 20% healing bonus to Holy Shock which should be used on CD.

For your last 5 points as you level to 85, my opinion is that you should finish Crusade with your 1st point, put 2 points into Improved Judgement to get your Judgement back to 40 yard range (since now in Cata, Judgement will return 15% base mana) and your last 2 points are "floaters" that could be used to reduce the CD of Divine Protection in Holy, possibly give you some mana free Word of Glories in Prot or reduce the CD on HoP in ret or give you run speed in ret.

Cheers,
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Re: Holydin advice wanted

Postby Eltiana » Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:39 pm

sherck wrote:
Eltiana wrote:2 points in Blazing light...why? Should move them into Enlightened Judgements, Blazing light only increases the damage of Holy shock, not the healing, making it rather useless in a PVE holy build, unless you were going for some weird exorcism build which it doesn't look like you are.


Ummmm, I am assuming that you are referring to my "20% Holy Shock buff" that I mention in the talents section?

That is the Ret tier 1 talent Crusade that increases both the damage AND healing of Holy Shock by 10% per talent point, not Blazing Light in the Holy tree.

For level 80, you need to put 31 pts in Holy. My suggestion for the last 5 points is 3 in Divinity for a 6% across the board healing buff and then 2 pts in ret in Crusade to give a 20% healing bonus to Holy Shock which should be used on CD.

For your last 5 points as you level to 85, my opinion is that you should finish Crusade with your 1st point, put 2 points into Improved Judgement to get your Judgement back to 40 yard range (since now in Cata, Judgement will return 15% base mana) and your last 2 points are "floaters" that could be used to reduce the CD of Divine Protection in Holy, possibly give you some mana free Word of Glories in Prot or reduce the CD on HoP in ret or give you run speed in ret.

Cheers,

No, I'm talking about the OP's Holy spec which is indeed specced into Blazing light as of right now.
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Re: Holydin advice wanted

Postby sherck » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:27 am

Eltiana wrote:
sherck wrote:
Eltiana wrote:2 points in Blazing light...why? Should move them into Enlightened Judgements, Blazing light only increases the damage of Holy shock, not the healing, making it rather useless in a PVE holy build, unless you were going for some weird exorcism build which it doesn't look like you are.


Ummmm, I am assuming that you are referring to my "20% Holy Shock buff" that I mention in the talents section?

That is the Ret tier 1 talent Crusade that increases both the damage AND healing of Holy Shock by 10% per talent point, not Blazing Light in the Holy tree.

For level 80, you need to put 31 pts in Holy. My suggestion for the last 5 points is 3 in Divinity for a 6% across the board healing buff and then 2 pts in ret in Crusade to give a 20% healing bonus to Holy Shock which should be used on CD.

For your last 5 points as you level to 85, my opinion is that you should finish Crusade with your 1st point, put 2 points into Improved Judgement to get your Judgement back to 40 yard range (since now in Cata, Judgement will return 15% base mana) and your last 2 points are "floaters" that could be used to reduce the CD of Divine Protection in Holy, possibly give you some mana free Word of Glories in Prot or reduce the CD on HoP in ret or give you run speed in ret.

Cheers,

No, I'm talking about the OP's Holy spec which is indeed specced into Blazing light as of right now.


Well, since I am the OP, my exact line from the first post was "I personally think that 6% healing and 20% Holy Shock buff are the way to go in off-trees."

20% Holy Shock buff are the way to go in off-trees = Crusade, not Blazing Light.

I never avocated taking Blazing Light.

Neither here nor there but your confusion has become my confusion.

Cheers,
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Re: Holydin advice wanted

Postby Eltiana » Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:59 pm

sherck wrote:
Well, since I am the OP, my exact line from the first post was "I personally think that 6% healing and 20% Holy Shock buff are the way to go in off-trees."

20% Holy Shock buff are the way to go in off-trees = Crusade, not Blazing Light.

I never avocated taking Blazing Light.

Neither here nor there but your confusion has become my confusion.

Cheers,

When I say OP, I mean the original thread poster, aka Gigg. And he IS specced into Blazing light.
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