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Judgement of the Just stacking with Thunderfury effect?

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Judgement of the Just stacking with Thunderfury effect?

Postby Sandrudiga » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:12 am

I was wondering if anyone else had noticed this, and did a bit more extensive testing that I have so far.

I just finished the quest chain, and of course the first thing I did was duel my girlfriend. Noticed that the spell effects were both appearing. I had her have a look at her Speed while I debuffed her. Went from 1.77 to 2.12 with Judgement of the Just, and then up to 2.55 when Thunderfury procced.

I thought it was interesting, but wasn't sure if it would work on a raid boss, and with 16 minutes to shutdown I didn't have time for alot of testing. I did run to naxx and did 3 deaths on sapphiron. One with thunderfury equipped, and two without. Both times had the combat window only showing hits/misses etc on my character. Without thunderfury her attacks usually had a 2 second delay, sometimes 3, and rarely 4. The one test I managed to get in with Thunderfury was a bit different.

The first three attacks were 2 seconds apart, but when thunderfury proc hit, her next attack was 5 seconds later, then 2 seconds, then 6 seconds, and then final attack 4 seconds. Proc wore off then, and I died soon after.

I was wondering if there were any other tests of this? If there isn't, i'll have to find a raid boss with a more set attack speed and give it a try, in that case are there any suggestions?
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Re: Judgement of the Just stacking with Thunderfury effect?

Postby Invisusira » Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:59 am

Last time I looked into it, (which was quite some time ago), while the debuffs for TF, JotJ and the Icy Chill enchant all stack on the target, the effects do not. It looks like perhaps that's changed, although I doubt it's intentional.
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Re: Judgement of the Just stacking with Thunderfury effect?

Postby Sandrudiga » Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:29 am

After a bit more searching since the servers went down, there are a few people on the official forums that have reported the same thing. It definately stacks on players at the moment, and though I am fairly confident that it does on raid bosses too, I plan on testing it further.

I know for me, if I am in a offtanking situation i'll be using it. I think if it does its like you said, unintentional and will be fixed. Until then, I know another 20% attack speed debuff will make a noticeable difference. Just have to prove it does.
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Re: Judgement of the Just stacking with Thunderfury effect?

Postby Kelaan » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:30 pm

Surely that will be hotfixed.
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Re: Judgement of the Just stacking with Thunderfury effect?

Postby Leuthas » Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:40 am

This just in: Thunderfury is once again the BiS tanking weapon! :twisted:
Why can't a Warrior Thunderclap while silenced?

You're actually clapping your thighs together with a force so powerful that you generate a sonic boom and the resulting electrostatic energy. Unfortunately, when you're silenced, you can't generate the audible force from your thunder thighs.

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Re: Judgement of the Just stacking with Thunderfury effect?

Postby Fridmarr » Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:01 am

Kelaan wrote:Surely that will be hotfixed.

In the least I doubt that it will go live in Cataclysm.
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Re: Judgement of the Just stacking with Thunderfury effect?

Postby Kihra » Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:54 pm

I tested this out on Marrowgar yesterday, and it didn't look like it was stacking. It's hard to tell though.
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Re: Judgement of the Just stacking with Thunderfury effect?

Postby Fridmarr » Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:40 pm

Kihra wrote:I tested this out on Marrowgar yesterday, and it didn't look like it was stacking. It's hard to tell though.

Well you can't really tell by looking, you'd need a combat log. Marrowgar may not be the best test because of his spinning around phases, but the Orc boss after the boat would work fairly well.

It's easier to see in duels because your opponent can read his swing speed off the character sheet.
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Re: Judgement of the Just stacking with Thunderfury effect?

Postby Kihra » Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:58 pm

Fridmarr wrote:
Kihra wrote:I tested this out on Marrowgar yesterday, and it didn't look like it was stacking. It's hard to tell though.

Well you can't really tell by looking, you'd need a combat log. Marrowgar may not be the best test because of his spinning around phases, but the Orc boss after the boat would work fairly well.

It's easier to see in duels because your opponent can read his swing speed off the character sheet.


Yeah, I mean it was even hard to tell from a combat log, because the buff applies intermittently and Marrowgar did all sorts of other stuff.
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Re: Judgement of the Just stacking with Thunderfury effect?

Postby Liyalai » Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:13 am

Just tested this with a friend of mine in a duel - He started at 1.4/1.2, was at 1.7/1.4 with JotJ and 2.0/1.7 with JotJ and TF effect on.
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Re: Judgement of the Just stacking with Thunderfury effect?

Postby Xenorun » Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:46 pm

JUST LOST MY POST. GUH.

Anyways, did some testing with a friend on Malygos. My math MAY be off a bit, so bear with me and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

From what I saw Malygos' attack speed was anywhere between 2.75 and 3.2 (with 1-2 debuffs up, be it Thunderfury or Judgement of the Just) -- If you take 20% of 2.75 (.55) and add them together, you get 3.3, which imo is close enough to 3.2 attack speed.

I have logs if people would like to see them to correct me if I'm wrong. But unless I'm grossly mistaken, on bosses BOTH of these attack speed debuffs --- DO --- in fact stack. Now to have someone like Theck tell us if this is useful in raid environment :D
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Re: Judgement of the Just stacking with Thunderfury effect?

Postby Gamingdevil » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:39 am

Xenorun wrote:JUST LOST MY POST. GUH.

Anyways, did some testing with a friend on Malygos. My math MAY be off a bit, so bear with me and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

From what I saw Malygos' attack speed was anywhere between 2.75 and 3.2 (with 1-2 debuffs up, be it Thunderfury or Judgement of the Just) -- If you take 20% of 2.75 (.55) and add them together, you get 3.3, which imo is close enough to 3.2 attack speed.

I have logs if people would like to see them to correct me if I'm wrong. But unless I'm grossly mistaken, on bosses BOTH of these attack speed debuffs --- DO --- in fact stack. Now to have someone like Theck tell us if this is useful in raid environment :D


I'm not entirely sure if the huge loss in threat from using an iLevel 80 weapon, is worth it. Sure it's a big decrease in damage, but it doesn't help much if the boss isn't interested in you.
If it is weak, kill it before it gets stronger. If it is strong, weaken it.
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Re: Judgement of the Just stacking with Thunderfury effect?

Postby Xenorun » Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:35 pm

Well thats the thing, it'd be highly situational. Though if you are ever in an OT position it can only help.

There are certain times where threat is a non-issue, and thats what I'm curious about, to see if the stacking debuffs help so much that its worthwhile. Obviously if threat is an issue at any time, you wouldnt do this. Just assumed that went without saying ;)
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Re: Judgement of the Just stacking with Thunderfury effect?

Postby Fridmarr » Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:41 pm

and of course you can swap at key times too, something like Phase 3 of what's his face (festergut?) in ICC.
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Re: Judgement of the Just stacking with Thunderfury effect?

Postby theckhd » Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:08 am

Testing from Algalon10 yesterday (Herald group):

Attempt one: No Thunderfury

Just noting the time stamp of every main-hand swing. In several cases I had to guess between two avoided swings, though in general he always alternates MH/OH/MH/OH so it was pretty easy to pick out the appropriate one.

Code: Select all
   t_swing      diff
   48.2120         0
   49.1300    0.9180
   50.1320    1.0020
   51.2790    1.1470
   52.5540    1.2750
   53.7570    1.2030
   54.9490    1.1920
   56.2160    1.2670
   57.3660    1.1500
   58.5720    1.2060
   59.7760    1.2040
   60.9800    1.2040
   62.1790    1.1990
   63.3910    1.2120
   64.6080    1.2170
   65.8110    1.2030


JotJ is first applied at 50.535, at which point the swing timer jumps from a mean of 1.0223 to 1.211.


Attempt 9: JotJ and TF:

Code: Select all
   25.2840         0
   26.3830    1.0990
   27.2960    0.9130
   28.3870    1.0910
   29.5230    1.1360
   30.7760    1.2530
   31.9780    1.2020
   33.6980    1.7200
   34.4680    0.7700
   35.9710    1.5030
   37.4390    1.4680
   38.7850    1.3460
   40.2220    1.4370
   42.1800    1.9580
   43.6350    1.4550
   45.0510    1.4160
   46.5160    1.4650
   47.9650    1.4490
   49.4160    1.4510
   50.8700    1.4540
   52.3160    1.4460
   53.7400    1.4240
   55.2110    1.4710
   56.6490    1.4380
   58.1180    1.4690
   59.4870    1.3690
   60.9590    1.4720


JotJ first applied at 28.069, TF first applied at 33.698. I'm pretty sure there's an error in the timestamps at 34 and 35 seconds; either movement, combat log error, or I guessed wrong. Similarly for the point at 42 seconds. Either way, the first six points show the attack speed rising from 1.03 to 1.20 after JotJ is applied, and another jump to an average of 1.44 (using all points from 37s on except for 42s). So it looks like they do stack, and within the limits of this analysis, it looks like they stack multiplicatively (1*1.2*1.2=1.44).
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