BM Second Boss

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BM Second Boss

Postby Robbo » Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:56 am

So I tanked BM twice in a row last night (hunter friend of mine was trying for the bow, and I needed the rep), and on the second boss who does the healing debuff, can you remove it with a quick bubble/debubble?

I tried it both times, and it didn't look like it worked. Things move so fast in there I didn't have time to properly think about it.

Does Stoneform remove it?

Its probably a non-issue, since we made it through both times easy, but I'm always lookin' for ways to make my healers have an easier time.

Thanks :)
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Postby Caelia » Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:26 am

something easier, if you have a mage, get him to spell steal the buff on the boss, or a shammy to purge it or a hunter to arcane shot it or a priest to dispel it. Dispel the buff he gets and he doesnt apply the debuff to you making the fight most trivial.
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Postby adese » Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:28 am

I'm not sure if that would remove it or not (I would guess it would, since most all debuffs are removed by the bubble), but you can only use your bubble once per 4 minutes (assuming 2/2 Sacred Duty). You'd probably need to remove the debuff more than once per fight, and that fight shouldn't last longer than 4 minutes.

When I go to BM, I have a priest or shammy remove the haste buff on him, or have a mage spell steal it. This way he attacks at normal speed so the debuff won't stack up on you as fast. Combine that with some nice avoidance, and you shouldn't really have to worry about the debuff at all.
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Postby Dynaheir » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:10 am

Bubble doesn't break this specific healing debuff.
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Postby Robbo » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:32 am

Dynaheir wrote:Bubble doesn't break this specific healing debuff.

Ah, bummer.

Oh well, thanks for the replies everyone, I'll do the Spellsteal/Arcane Shot/Purge method next time.
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Postby Doloth » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:59 am

There is yet another debuff that bubble does not get rid of? More and more I wish that blizz would just get rid of the damn thing and give us something more useful...
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Postby Robbert » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:13 pm

If you've got someone in the party capable of holding this boss for a short period of time...DPS warrior or feral druid can bubble and let them tank for a bit until the debuff wears off. In normal mode any reasonably geared DPS warrior in pvp gear or feral druid in bear form should be able to take the beating short term as long as you've warned your healer of this plan. In heroic...not sure that I'd want to rely on this as he hits significantly harder. I usually use my pocketwatch when I see a 4+ stack is close to expiring...does not always work but usually only need to get the stack to drop once on this boss, even in heroic.
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Postby Zhalseran » Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:47 pm

Caelia wrote:something easier, if you have a mage, get him to spell steal the buff on the boss, or a shammy to purge it or a hunter to arcane shot it or a priest to dispel it. Dispel the buff he gets and he doesnt apply the debuff to you making the fight most trivial.


He buffs himself with haste, so he attacks faster, making him more likely to apply the debuff to you. Getting rid of haste greatly aids you in not getting debuffed, but you can still very much get debuffed.

While bubble won't outright get rid of the debuff, it will drop aggro long enough for the debuff to time-out. When I was getting my Rogue Kara attuned, way back when BM was impossible, we used to have the pally healer bubble the tank, and I would evasion tank untill the debuff wore off. It has the potential to get messy, but done right it works well enough.
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Postby Minn » Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:54 pm

This fight is a good lesson in combat table management. A blocked attack will not apply the debuff. Aim for 0% hit with Holy Shield up, and keep it up. Active trinkets like Dabiri's Enigma, Lucky Pocket Watch are also handy, especially if you're tanking the adds as well since you may lose your HS charges before getting the opportunity to refresh.

Watch the stack, specifically the time remaining on the debuff if it does penetrate your defenses. Bubble won't clear the stack, but it will prevent it from getting refreshed. So for example, if you got stunned, hasten didn't get removed and you're up to 6x on the healing debuff stack: keep HS up, keep away from stunners, and with 3-4s left on the stack, pop DS.

Edit: wowwiki says he's untauntable, oops. Regarding blocks, I don't think it takes much block value to fully block the Mortal Wound. I tanked BM pre-70 and all it took was religious use of HS, popping a trinket when adds got annoying, and a little help from groupmates on Hasten removal.
Last edited by Minn on Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Robbert » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:25 pm

I believe it's only fully blocked attacks which are unable to apply the as long as 1 damage makes it through to you then that attack can cause an application of the debuff.
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Postby Exodius » Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:33 am

I'm not sure as well whether it's a full block or partial (normal) block which will make him unable to stack the debuff...

As others have said, bubble will not remove the debuff. It will make you immune to every attack though, so he cannot keep stacking them and the short timer they are on will mean that the stack will wear off. Once the timer runs out, he has to restart his stack from 0 again.

However, if you bubble, then he will go for second aggro person. That's great if the player or pet expects it, awful if they do not.

How I would recommend that fight...

Stack avoidance gear. Pretend you are in Kara and trying to get uncrushable. If he does not hit you, the debuff cannot stack.

Have someone remove the boss' haste buff. Dispell magic, purge, spell steal, the warlock pet's Felhunter's Devour Magic, I would imagine the new hunter's arcane shot would work as well. His buff will come back after a few seconds, but with the removal of detect magic even a healer who can remove it should be able to do so. Maybe have someone type a letter in the party chat or say it on vent if they can't / won't check it themselves.

With these two strategies in place, you should be able to walk around backwards in slow circles behind the portal the boss comes out, but not too far from it. With no haste he moves pretty slowly, so you should see the debuff hardly stack at all.

If the debuff does stack high, then activate your avoidance trinkets. Pocket watch, Dabiri's Enigma, that sort of thing. That should make it even harder for him to apply, which means it should fall off. Just don't use them at the start (or on a portal just before him), wait until you actually need them for this fight.

Barring that, then you can bubble then taunt or let someone else play with him. A Felguard, Voidwalker, hunter pet, evasion rogue, feral druid, that sort of thing should all be good. Just make sure they are second on the list, as he really is taunt immune. :(

Don't cancel the bubble right away. As stated above, it won't remove the stack automatically.

Don't worry about the adds during all this. Have everyone focus soley on the boss. The adds should not completely destroy the shields by themselves and if the boss if far enough away from a dragon beacon he won't automatically kill it - it's only when it's next to him. Just try and burn him down quick so the debuff situation does not get too bad.

Above all else, BM is the most dps intensive 5 man in the game. It does not matter how awesome your tank and healer are, if your dps is crap, too many portals will open, the tank will be left with no healing for too long from the boss tricks... if you are having trouble in general, have a good look at the dps and don't let them give you crap about being a bad tank if extra portals open or bosses take too long to kill.

It's their fault, not yours. If they are just there to scab a Kara key well, I don't think they should be going to Kara. That's just a pet peeve of mine. The tanks work hard, the healers work hard, yet the dps can often think it's alright to slack off in greens while going there. Ah well, enough rant. :P
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Postby Nicos » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:45 am

I attempted BM last night as a level 69...

Group was:

Me (Prot Pally)
Resto Shaman
Affliction Warlock
Combat Swords Rogue
Fire Mage

Everyone in the group was 70 but me.

I grabbed some consumables from my bank as tanking BM at level 69 is a little iffy... Buzzard Bites, Superior Wizard Oil, Flask of Fort.

With Kings, Blood Pact, Food Buff, Flask... i was sitting pretty at 13,000 health.

The shaman commented that he's used to healing tanks that barely hit the 10k mark.. and they are level 70.

So we figure this will be fairly simple run... Mage on adds that may get loose or past my consecrate.

Unfortunately, he didn't know how to play... and was wearing level 55-60 items because they "looked cool".

We got all the way to the second boss with him standing next to medivh and only fighting things that came to him.


Bad pick up groups suck.
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