4.3 Item Enhancement Guide

Get help with your character's gear

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Sabindeus, Aergis, lythac, Digren, majiben

Re: 4.0.1 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby Digren » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:20 pm

knaughty wrote:I think the sections on Strength, Hit, Agility might need to be adjusted now Theck's numbers are in. Our best threat stat by a mile is Expertise, then Hit, then Strength in a rather distant third. Stamina provides about 80% of the threat of Strength, I can't ever see strength being a valid threat choice.

Threat set would be (IMnsHO):
  1. Expertise to softcap
  2. Hit to cap
  3. Stack stamina
Otherwise looks good and will link to my FAQ when I'm  not working from an iPad

I've reworked that text based on the latest numbers. We'll see how much they change things again in the short term.
User avatar
Digren
Moderator
 
Posts: 1401
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:41 pm

Re: 4.0.1 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby steadypal » Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:26 pm

when i was doing the reforging and regemming to match +9 stam bonuses. i was using the block cap macro... it was saying WITH kings, that the 10agi gems were giving .01 more avoidance than the 10 parry gems, is it more wise of me to just go with the +parry?
steadypal
 
Posts: 662
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: 4.0.1 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby Mordral » Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:58 am

Executioner: 160 120 crit rating – changed from ArPen with 4.0.1

Edit: 120 crit confirmed. Thanks to Digren on the correction. No idea what my problem is, either the tooltip on the scroll was a football bat or D is for Lysdexia. Either way, at 120 crit this enchant is... lacking

What an amazing waste of time this has been. Sincere apologies to everyone who read that garbage.
Last edited by Mordral on Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mordral
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:06 am

Re: 4.0.1 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby Digren » Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:39 am

steadypal wrote:when i was doing the reforging and regemming to match +9 stam bonuses. i was using the block cap macro... it was saying WITH kings, that the 10agi gems were giving .01 more avoidance than the 10 parry gems, is it more wise of me to just go with the +parry?

How much parry and dodge do you have? Do you have numbers for changes to those with different amounts of parry rating or agility?

Maybe they've tweaked something since beta.
User avatar
Digren
Moderator
 
Posts: 1401
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:41 pm

Re: 4.0.1 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby Mordral » Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:42 pm

Executioner testing 2.0

Edit: Anachronos seems to make a swell reactive 'boss' test dummy. I make a better test dummy.
Last edited by Mordral on Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mordral
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:06 am

Re: 4.0.1 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby Digren » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:32 am

I think there's enough information from Theck's analysis thread to compare the threat outputs of executioner and accuracy, then.

Executioner

Assume ~45% uptime for about 75 average crit rating. This is on the generous end of your analysis; more testing is necessary.

Theck's stat comparison indicates that every 10 points of crit rating yield about 13 DPS. Thus Executioner at the assumed up time should average about 97.5 DPS or 195 TPS.

Accuracy

100% uptime for 25 crit rating and 25 hit rating. The hit rating isn't valuable if you are over the cap, but with reforging you should never be over the cap. (Reforge some hit rating into mastery somewhere.)

Theck's stat comparison indicates that every 10 points of hit rating yield about 24 DPS. Thus Accuracy provides about 92.5 total DPS or 185 TPS.

Summary

Based on the limited data, it looks like Executioner can generate slightly more threat than Accuracy in situations where the proc rate is high. However it is unpredictable in that it provides uncontrolled bursts of threat. I don't know that 10 TPS is worth sacrificing the predictability of an always-on enchant.

I'll ask Theck to include Executioner in future simulations to generate more data over a larger range of weapons and stats.
User avatar
Digren
Moderator
 
Posts: 1401
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:41 pm

Re: 4.0.1 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby Digren » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:38 am

Mordral wrote:Executioner: 160 crit rating – changed from ArPen with 4.0.1

On live? Wowhead has it as 120 crit rating.

[Enchant Weapon - Executioner]

So does MMO Champ.

[Enchant Weapon - Executioner]

At 45% uptime it would thus yield only 54 crit rating. In this case it's not as good as Accuracy by a significant margin.
User avatar
Digren
Moderator
 
Posts: 1401
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:41 pm

Re: 4.0.1 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby steadypal » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:06 am

replacing 3 30 stam gems with 10dodge/stam in yellow sockets must have skewed my memory, i tested the macro before doing that, but anyways, 3x agi gems with kings 100.38 is what i get, with those 3 gems turned into parry 100.40, so i know agi doesnt provide the armor anymore, but would the small amount of crit make up for the measely .02 difference in avoidance that the parry gems give?
steadypal
 
Posts: 662
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: 4.0.1 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby Mordral » Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:44 pm

Digren wrote:On live? Wowhead has it as 120 crit rating.


Ok, fail. No idea on that one, I distinctly remember looking at the enchant scrolls in the bank and saying "Ok what? This procs how much?" and then using DBW to tell me how much crit % I gained from it. Not exactly my finest theorycrafting moment, but that is why I posted it and asked for review.
Mordral
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:06 am

Re: 4.0.1 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby Digren » Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:37 am

steadypal wrote:replacing 3 30 stam gems with 10dodge/stam in yellow sockets must have skewed my memory, i tested the macro before doing that, but anyways, 3x agi gems with kings 100.38 is what i get, with those 3 gems turned into parry 100.40, so i know agi doesnt provide the armor anymore, but would the small amount of crit make up for the measely .02 difference in avoidance that the parry gems give?

Probably, but I'm going to wait until I see the level 85 diminishing returns before I rewrite the guide to suggest agility over parry rating when a player's parry percent is [equal or higher than or some other threshold around] their dodge percent.
User avatar
Digren
Moderator
 
Posts: 1401
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:41 pm

Re: 4.0.1 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby daiceman » Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:51 pm

You still have str/stam listed as the threat option for purple when exp/stam is nearly always a better option.
daiceman
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:53 pm

Re: 4.0.1 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby Discus » Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:46 am

Fantastic guide and why I still come to Maintankadin, thanks.
Discus
 
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:28 am

Re: 4.0.1 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby theckhd » Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:27 pm

Sneak preview of the enchant/food analysis:

Code: Select all
                                          DPS
Enchant/food                            4%   8%
Titanium Weapon Chain                   66    0
Enchant Weapon - Potency                30   32
Enchant Weapon - Exceptional Agility    32   34
Enchant Weapon - Greater Potency        33   36
Enchant Weapon - Accuracy               93   36
Enchant Weapon - Berserking            119  128
Snapper Extreme                        126   34
Firecracker Salmon                      40   43
Blackened Dragonfin                     82   87
Poached Northern Sculpin                84   91
Dragonfin Filet                         92   99
Fish Feast                              93  100
Rhinolicious Wormsteak                 176  105


The DPS column lists the DPS gained from the enchant or food item in two configurations, the first at 4% Hit and 16 expertise and the second at 8% hit and 26 expertise. I'll have this up in graph/post form some time this weekend, after I've done some final sanity checks and get some time to write a proper post.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 6.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 6206
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: 4.0.1 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby Digren » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:56 am

theckhd wrote:Sneak preview of the enchant/food analysis:

The DPS column lists the DPS gained from the enchant or food item in two configurations, the first at 4% Hit and 16 expertise and the second at 8% hit and 26 expertise. I'll have this up in graph/post form some time this weekend, after I've done some final sanity checks and get some time to write a proper post.

Thank you! My interpretation from your existing graphs led to a different conclusion for Berserking, so actual numbers is good.
User avatar
Digren
Moderator
 
Posts: 1401
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:41 pm

Re: 4.0.1 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby Dratheus » Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:11 am

First I'd like to say that as a pretty freshly dinged 80 Prot Pally this guide was VERY helpful on giving me an idea of the direction I'm needing to head in this new 4.01 environment. Second. Second I'm wondering if you can possibly give me some advice on where to pick up hit rating. I'm at the soft expertise cap now but currently the only thing giving me hit rating is the enchant on my weapon. I know I could always reforge it but I'd really rather put all that into Mastery for block. With that being said, I am using only heroic dungeon or t10 gear from vendors, I know theres a few rings and such I can pick up in ICC for some hit, when I pick up the last piece or 2 of gear I need before I tank there.

And on a side note. Trinkets. I currently have. Corroded Skeleton Key. And The Black Heart. I'm really considering replacing Black Heart for Glyph of Indomitability. But I'm being told that Ick's Rotting Thumb and other dodge based trinkets are better then ones providing stamina and armor now. Any advice on which to keep and which to toss out for others?

Thank you mate any advice at all will be much appreciated
Dratheus
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:55 am

Re: 4.0.1 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby Digren » Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:57 am

Dratheus wrote:First I'd like to say that as a pretty freshly dinged 80 Prot Pally this guide was VERY helpful on giving me an idea of the direction I'm needing to head in this new 4.01 environment. Second. Second I'm wondering if you can possibly give me some advice on where to pick up hit rating. I'm at the soft expertise cap now but currently the only thing giving me hit rating is the enchant on my weapon. I know I could always reforge it but I'd really rather put all that into Mastery for block. With that being said, I am using only heroic dungeon or t10 gear from vendors, I know theres a few rings and such I can pick up in ICC for some hit, when I pick up the last piece or 2 of gear I need before I tank there.

And on a side note. Trinkets. I currently have. Corroded Skeleton Key. And The Black Heart. I'm really considering replacing Black Heart for Glyph of Indomitability. But I'm being told that Ick's Rotting Thumb and other dodge based trinkets are better then ones providing stamina and armor now. Any advice on which to keep and which to toss out for others?

Thank you mate any advice at all will be much appreciated

Unfortunately there isn't any place else to get hit rating, unless you're willing to sacrifice stamina or mastery for it. Fortunately you don't need it. Are you losing threat to DPS who wait for you to be in melee range or get an MD before they unload on the mob?

No? Then you're fine on threat.

Yes? Then figure out what's wrong with either your rotation or the players you play with. They shouldn't take mobs from you when it matters.

On trash, when everyone wants to be lazy (except healers, who want to not be bored), switch in alternative gear with hit rating and more expertize and such to boost your threat.

Regarding trinkets, I think those giving you advice are mistaken. Avoidance is more important now, yes, because it's necessary to get to the block cap to increase your effective health. Would I give up a little stamina or armor to get to the block cap? Yeah, probably by matching socket bonuses down to +6 sta. Would I give up a lot of armor or stamina for avoidance? No way. My guess is that those giving you advice are avoidance tanks who were dragged kicking and screaming into EH a year or two ago, and who now see this as a chance to reassert their preferred model.

When Cata releases and all our health bars bulge, the value of EH will reduce a bit further, I think leaving EH and avoidance about on par. But things shouldn't swing in drastic favor of avoidance and they certainly haven't done so yet, what with our small health pools and the still-massive size of ICC hits.
User avatar
Digren
Moderator
 
Posts: 1401
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:41 pm

Re: 4.0.3a Item Enhancement Guide

Postby Digren » Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:25 pm

I'm working my way through updating this for level 85. If you are looking for up-to-date advice for level 80 tanking, I'm sorry, the 80 raiding season is over, start hoarding Justice Points and wait for Cataclysm.

Be sure to take a look at my tank level and gear guide, which will include overall gear sets at each tank level (including item enhancements). You'll be able to see how the entire system fits together to make a solid tank.
User avatar
Digren
Moderator
 
Posts: 1401
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:41 pm

Re: 4.0.3a Item Enhancement Guide

Postby Digren » Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:59 pm

Ok, everything is in place for the rush to level 85. It's certainly not perfect - there are places I know I lack the knowledge to make a final decision - but it took me most of the extended weekend just to get these posts in place. We can refine things moving forward.
User avatar
Digren
Moderator
 
Posts: 1401
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:41 pm

Re: 4.0.3a Item Enhancement Guide

Postby confedsg » Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:11 am

What about Heavy Savage Armor Kit as an glove enchant :) You missed that 1 ^_^
Image
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
confedsg
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:23 pm
Location: Australia

Re: 4.0.3a Item Enhancement Guide

Postby Protigy » Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:25 pm

Dropping by to give my thanks for your work! Excellent as always, Digren. :)
User avatar
Protigy
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:18 pm
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: 4.0.3a Item Enhancement Guide

Postby Digren » Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:31 pm

<grin> thanks.


We'll see how things go as the week progresses. While I'm adamant about not wasting space with threat enchants on survivability gear, real evidence that they are necessary (to some extent) will prove me wrong and I'll quickly adjust my advice accordingly. I plan to avoid threat stats whenever possible, and we'll see how I do compared to all the folks that plan to stack expertise rating everywhere. It's hard to quantify whether I die less than they do (since that depends on many factors), but I can certainly quantify whether or not my threat is sufficient. And the only useful threat is sufficient threat.
User avatar
Digren
Moderator
 
Posts: 1401
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:41 pm

Re: 4.0.3a Item Enhancement Guide

Postby econ21 » Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:40 am

I decided to enchant all my gear today, as it is "heroic ready" and found this guide very useful. Unfortunately, most of the top tier enchants were not available on the AH as scrolls so I ended up going with lesser ones. In that spirit, it might be worth adding the savage armor kit to lists for the (5?) slots it can be applied. It did not seem a bad option for hands, chest and feet, until I can get the top tier ones (e.g. at +36 stamina, I think its better than the 275 hp chest enchant I think I used in wotlk). Heavy savage armor would have been better but was more expensive and I did not want to spend the gold for something I will either upgrade or enchant over.

For the weapon enchant, mending caught my eye. I don't know the proc rate, although wowhead says it heals for around 800 hp. Probably useless for dungeons (although stuff hits so hard and drains healer mana so quick, any little bit of healing I will take). But it seemed enormously helpful for soloing. I've already switched from truth to insight since questing at L84-85 incurs so much damage. But with this enchant, I seldom seemed to have to use WoG. I think it will be nice for those "kill 12 spider" type dailies where you want to pull a lot and get it done quick. (Before the enchant, 6 Tol Barad dailies took me 26 mins and one death - it reminds me of the Isle of Quel'danas in BC; we kill stuff slow.)
econ21
 
Posts: 1217
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:53 am

Re: 4.0.3a Item Enhancement Guide

Postby Thels » Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:33 pm

Will there ever be love for Enchanters and Blacksmiths again? Yes, the basic stat benefits are on par, but that's about all there is to it.

Alchemists: Save money on flasks (longer duration), nice starting trinket.
Jewelcrafters: Slightly higher bonus, nice starting trinket.
Leatherworkers: Cheaper leg enchants.
Scribes: Don't have to grind rep. (And they're no longer missing out on the PvP enchant, since the PvE enchant is actually decent nowadays.)
Engineers: Nice starting helm, nice cooldown, alternative enchants.

Enchanters: Have to spend extra enchanting mats on gear instead of replacing regular enchants/gems by cheaper profession only enchants/gems. No BoP items.
Blacksmiths: Have to spend extra mats on gear to create the sockets instead of replacing regular enchants/gems by cheaper profession only enchants/gems (thought admittedly, they are now negligible). Have to buy additional gems. No BoP items.

Seriously... I've got too many plans in both of them to drop either Blacksmithing or Enchanting, and replacing one by another would be too much a waste of money, but if I could go back and pick different professions, I would have chosen so different.
ImageImage
User avatar
Thels
 
Posts: 1233
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 7:30 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: 4.0.3a Item Enhancement Guide

Postby Gavinas » Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:51 pm

econ21 wrote:For the weapon enchant, mending caught my eye. I don't know the proc rate, although wowhead says it heals for around 800 hp. Probably useless for dungeons (although stuff hits so hard and drains healer mana so quick, any little bit of healing I will take). But it seemed enormously helpful for soloing. I've already switched from truth to insight since questing at L84-85 incurs so much damage. But with this enchant, I seldom seemed to have to use WoG. I think it will be nice for those "kill 12 spider" type dailies where you want to pull a lot and get it done quick. (Before the enchant, 6 Tol Barad dailies took me 26 mins and one death - it reminds me of the Isle of Quel'danas in BC; we kill stuff slow.)


I've also been trying out Mending since it gave me 5 skill ups on my enchanter and wasn't too expensive. Procs for 800-1000, can crit for 1.5x the heal and seems to proc off most/all of our abilities. Did some brief testing on a dummy and it seems to have ~10% proc chance with a 2.6 speed weapon, I assume it's a ppm enchant but haven't bothered testing other weapon speeds. I have a brief combat log using it attacking one of the combat dummy's in SW with both just autoattacks and doing a rotation for 5 minutes or so if anyone is interested. Based on my experiences in heroics today I'd say it acts like a small HOT, but since I have more threat than I know what do with at the moment and the higher end enchants like Windwalk aren't available yet I'll probably stick with it for a while.
Gavinas
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:03 pm

Re: 4.0.3a Item Enhancement Guide

Postby Hiroko » Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:57 am

There's an intermediate Twiglight Leg Armor: http://www.wowhead.com/item=56503
85 stam and 45 agility
Hiroko
 
Posts: 138
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:30 am
Location: Hampshire - UK

PreviousNext

Return to Gear Discussions and Advice

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest