Tanking Rotation in Cataclysm

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Re: Tanking Rotation in Cataclysm

Postby dmok » Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:54 am

theckhd wrote:I suggest testing on a dummy first just to see if they're close.

In my gear setup (Dmor - The Scryers: a mix of 251/264 with heroic Bonebreaker Scepter) HotR was hitting for about 200-300 less than CS on average.

Is it possible that HotR is simply double-dipping from Crusade, and that's causing the higher scaling issues with HotR?
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Re: Tanking Rotation in Cataclysm

Postby Rothes » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:27 am

The 20% bonus to HotR from tier 10 has got to be screwing this. Maybe they didn't change that cause they want us to keep the aoe tank feel until post 80. Or that was an oversight.
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Re: Tanking Rotation in Cataclysm

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:29 am

theckhd wrote:I'm sort of hoping this is just a stupid oversight on their part, but unfortunately the only way to fix it is to nerf the nova damage of HotR (and thus nerf our AoE threat) or buff Crusader Strike.


I see them nerfing before buffing =/
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Re: Tanking Rotation in Cataclysm

Postby steadypal » Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:13 am

could that simply be 2pc doing 20% more hotr dmg, and hotr glyph doing pretty much 20% more dmg?
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Re: Tanking Rotation in Cataclysm

Postby d503 » Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:31 am

steadypal wrote:could that simply be 2pc doing 20% more hotr dmg, and hotr glyph doing pretty much 20% more dmg?


According to someone else, in some other thread, the 2pc buff is only effecting the physical aspect of HotR.
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Re: Tanking Rotation in Cataclysm

Postby Neptuno » Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:57 pm

d503 wrote:
steadypal wrote:could that simply be 2pc doing 20% more hotr dmg, and hotr glyph doing pretty much 20% more dmg?


According to someone else, in some other thread, the 2pc buff is only effecting the physical aspect of HotR.


from reading the posts, isn't that the component that matters for the discussion?
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Re: Tanking Rotation in Cataclysm

Postby dmok » Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:35 pm

Neptuno wrote:from reading the posts, isn't that the component that matters for the discussion?

I remember seeing the holy nova damage portion bring far higher than the physical, and so the scaling on the nova is important.

With the nova hitting both the primary target and secondary targets, it is skewing the numbers for single-target tanking too.
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Re: Tanking Rotation in Cataclysm

Postby Neptuno » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:34 pm

dmok wrote:
theckhd wrote:I suggest testing on a dummy first just to see if they're close.

In my gear setup (Dmor - The Scryers: a mix of 251/264 with heroic Bonebreaker Scepter) HotR was hitting for about 200-300 less than CS on average.

Is it possible that HotR is simply double-dipping from Crusade, and that's causing the higher scaling issues with HotR?


A level 73 tested without all the tier gear and they saw CS being around this same margin above HotR single-target.
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Re: Tanking Rotation in Cataclysm

Postby theckhd » Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:45 am

At the moment, it looks like Crusade is bugged and not affecting HotR at all, and the T10 2-piece bonus is not affecting the HammerNova component. So in all likelihood, Crusader Strike is still going to be the go-to single target attack.

If they fix the bug this may change, unless they buff Crusader Strike.

As a side note, losing that 30%-40% on HammerNova makes AoE tanking a real PITA.
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Re: Tanking Rotation in Cataclysm

Postby Paxen » Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:36 am

Is it worth it to use a 2.6 speed dps weapon for threat still? Seal damage is almost irrelevant, but does CS hit harder with a slow weapon?
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Re: Tanking Rotation in Cataclysm

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:40 am

GC claims Crusade is fixed:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... No=1&sid=1

The Crusade talent was not affecting the AoE portion of Hammer of the Righteous. That means paladin threat in AoE situations was 30% lower than designed. We fixed this last night.
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Re: Tanking Rotation in Cataclysm

Postby blakk » Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:46 am

Paxen wrote:Is it worth it to use a 2.6 speed dps weapon for threat still? Seal damage is almost irrelevant, but does CS hit harder with a slow weapon?

CS is based on weapon damage so i would think a slow is still superior
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Re: Tanking Rotation in Cataclysm

Postby steadypal » Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:58 am

KysenMurrin wrote:GC claims Crusade is fixed:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... No=1&sid=1

The Crusade talent was not affecting the AoE portion of Hammer of the Righteous. That means paladin threat in AoE situations was 30% lower than designed. We fixed this last night.



is that what theck came up with? crusade just not effecting the splash but the direct ? or was it not doing 30% to anything
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Re: Tanking Rotation in Cataclysm

Postby Flex » Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:33 pm

Are people reporting HotR being >= CS using fast weapons? Only reason I could see that being the case.
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Re: Tanking Rotation in Cataclysm

Postby Paxen » Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:39 pm

blakk wrote:
Paxen wrote:Is it worth it to use a 2.6 speed dps weapon for threat still? Seal damage is almost irrelevant, but does CS hit harder with a slow weapon?

CS is based on weapon damage so i would think a slow is still superior


Some quick and dirty dummy testing gave me about 15% increase in CS damage by changing heroic Bonebreaker Scepter with heroic Frost Giant's Cleaver. Combined with the lost AP (agi weapons no longer grant AP to us), I doubt it's much good to switch.
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