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[4.0.1] Gearing for Halion

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[4.0.1] Gearing for Halion

Postby polonadis » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:56 pm

As I have pointed out in this thread (relevant quote below), Blizzard has forgotten to remove Halion's Twilight Precision buff.

The thread in which I submitted this info is more about Icecrown, hence this thread for analysis/discussion.

polonadis wrote:Bad News Everyone!

Blizzard forgot about removing Halion's Twilight Precision, at least that's what I counclude from our WWS (damage by spell -> 1,4% dodge over the course of a 4,01min fight).

That means that the best strategy of Reforging for Halion is to reforge ALL the dodge you have on your gear (the more you go below 20%, the better) into mastery. At least that's what I would recommend (I'm sure someone will be kind enough to provide some math analysis to prove (or dipsrove?) this advice is sound.


/Discuss : )
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Re: [4.0.1] Gearing for Halion

Postby Treck » Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:09 pm

My impression was that it worked just like the ICC debuff, without beeing a debuff on the player.
That is that the DR relations between dodge/parry wasnt any other than it would be anywhere else.

And btw, "forgotten"? did they ever say they wanted to remove it?
Just cuz they remove the ICC buff doesnt automaticly mean all else is getting nerfed aswell.
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Re: [4.0.1] Gearing for Halion

Postby theckhd » Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:29 am

Treck wrote:My impression was that it worked just like the ICC debuff, without beeing a debuff on the player.
That is that the DR relations between dodge/parry wasnt any other than it would be anywhere else.


That's only if the debuff doesn't drop you below 0% dodge. If it does, then all of the dodge rating on your gear is worthless, and you're better off with parry. We discussed this sort of thing when Icewell Radiance was announced, in fact, but it was pretty hard to find a practical gear set with less than 20% dodge at that point so it was forgotten about fairly quickly.

The logic should be pretty obvious as well. If I have 15% dodge without Rubywell Radiance, I have 0% after it. If I add 2% dodge through gems, enchants, etc, I still have 0% after RR is applied. It doesn't matter how bad the DR is on parry in this situation, it's going to be better than zero.
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Re: [4.0.1] Gearing for Halion

Postby Awyndel » Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:52 am

Whoa there, did twilight precision even make it into 3.3.5? I have never seen a debuff in the instance. I thought it was removed before it hit live? Is it a buff on halion?
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Re: [4.0.1] Gearing for Halion

Postby Kihra » Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:04 pm

It was in at first. It seems to be gone now.
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Re: [4.0.1] Gearing for Halion

Postby polonadis » Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:47 pm

yep, the debuff (buff?) is gone now, so this thread is now officially irrelevant and may as well be deleted.
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Re: [4.0.1] Gearing for Halion

Postby Kihra » Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:59 am

polonadis wrote:yep, the debuff (buff?) is gone now, so this thread is now officially irrelevant and may as well be deleted.


Actually I'm not so sure. Analyzing our logs I am almost positive that Twilight Precision is on for the fire dragon and off for the shadow dragon.
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Re: [4.0.1] Gearing for Halion

Postby theckhd » Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:15 pm

polonadis wrote:yep, the debuff (buff?) is gone now, so this thread is now officially irrelevant and may as well be deleted.

As far as I'm aware, there never was a debuff. The boss simply had an invisible buff that nullified 20% of your dodge.

The first reports were that this was still active when 4.0.1 went live, I'm not sure if it's been fixed yet. But I trust Khira's log-interpreting skills, so if he says that the Fire dragon still has the buff, it's probably true.
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Re: [4.0.1] Gearing for Halion

Postby Kihra » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:17 pm

theckhd wrote:
polonadis wrote:yep, the debuff (buff?) is gone now, so this thread is now officially irrelevant and may as well be deleted.

As far as I'm aware, there never was a debuff. The boss simply had an invisible buff that nullified 20% of your dodge.

The first reports were that this was still active when 4.0.1 went live, I'm not sure if it's been fixed yet. But I trust Khira's log-interpreting skills, so if he says that the Fire dragon still has the buff, it's probably true.


This is a really small # of hits, but here's an example:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-i ... 10&e=10165

The druid has an avoidance rate of 38.7%. That's consistent with the buff being in effect. The druid should be avoiding 63% (he has 56% dodge + 7% miss from being a Night Elf). Twilight Precision increases Halion's chance to hit by 5% and lowers a player's chance to Dodge by 20% for a combined avoidance nerf of 25%. This is consistent with the numbers that we're seeing.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-i ... 10&e=10165

There's me down below. I avoid 54%. That's pretty much right where I should be if no buff is in effect. I take no unblocked hits.
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Re: [4.0.1] Gearing for Halion

Postby Greengo » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:39 am

Does Halion parry-haste in 4.0.1?
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Re: [4.0.1] Gearing for Halion

Postby Awyndel » Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:54 am

Has somebody already figured out how the parry hasting works on halion right now?

Is there parry haste at all? Or perhaps is there the rumoured mechanic where a parry causes increased damage on the next hit?

I have some WOL reports from our attempts on heroic. I am not sure how to read them for parry haste though. Perhaps somebody can help.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-pcc3r2chmxzcub3d/

It was me tanking the shadow halion. And Nesio tanking the fire halion.
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Re: [4.0.1] Gearing for Halion

Postby sculder » Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:10 am

On a semi-related note to the OP, last week I tried out some new stuff for halion. I spec'd heavy into wog talents (all of them) and protector of the innocent after noticing my threat in shadow was ridiculously high, especially during p3. I also use heroic rigomortis with +63sp to up my sp by ~1100. Long story short, this spec is completely OP and is being unrightfully dismissed by most of the paladins out there (and here). Sure, it's very gimmicky and may not have a place in farm content or even some progression fights, but hot damn it's working amazingly well for halion.

We used to have 3 (i think) healers in shadow, and 4 in fire, whereas with this spec I can run one healer in shadow and be more than fine, even without cooldowns. Word of glory hits me for upwards of 25k, with an added ~5k from protector of the innocent, and often does not consume holy power, allowing me to chain them together more often than not. I'm not saying this is the best spec, or even a good spec, but if you're someone who has issues with healing during cutters (or in general), you might want to give it a shot.

tl:dr - word of glory spec allows for 25-30k self heals at least every ~10 seconds, and is a very viable spec for Halion.
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Re: [4.0.1] Gearing for Halion

Postby Steve » Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:30 pm

I don't think you'd get anyone to disagree with you. WoG is pretty crazy in the amount of healing it does when you talent into it. But wait until you get Holy Radiance. That's when you start busting out the Avenging Wrath + Holy Radiance macros and can help trivialize certain encounter mechanics.
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Re: [4.0.1] Gearing for Halion

Postby Awyndel » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:05 am

I'd like to know how you're reaching those 25-30K numbers. Are those crits?

Fully specced and glyphed, in full tank gear, with last word, I can barely reach something around 15K, and that's with PotI. And with like a 10% spell crit chance that's not gonna get real hot.

Don't get me wrong, I spec it and use it for halion too.
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Re: [4.0.1] Gearing for Halion

Postby sculder » Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:27 am

Awyndel wrote:I'd like to know how you're reaching those 25-30K numbers. Are those crits?

Fully specced and glyphed, in full tank gear, with last word, I can barely reach something around 15K, and that's with PotI. And with like a 10% spell crit chance that's not gonna get real hot.

Don't get me wrong, I spec it and use it for halion too.


Heroic rigomortis gives me another ~1200 sp, adding a large chunk to my wog, which almost never crits, unfortunately.
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