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pallies = squishiest tank now?

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pallies = squishiest tank now?

Postby steadypal » Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:20 pm

this topic has come up in my guild, and a few others on my server stating that pallies are now very squishy compared to the other 3 tanks atm? is this true at 80, or the healers just slacking and not knowing how to heal with their new mechanics now?

i know we lost quite a bit of DR from talents, and the 3% from the glyph, and only got 10% put back into our new tree,,, so what gives? is this just numbers needed fixing in beta atm? or do we even out at 85
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Re: pallies = squishiest tank now?

Postby anowyn » Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:50 pm

A lot of players, tanks included, have not bought their mastery or reforged yet they still run off to LFG or trade to heroic spam. Without doing either of those, I'd expect them to take A LOT more damage.
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Re: pallies = squishiest tank now?

Postby steadypal » Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:01 pm

im talking about guild tanks in raids, not ppls opinions from heroic groups, so i just had to ask around, see if its true, or if its healers and such just not knowing all the changes yet.


hmm with warriors crit block close to 40-50%, does that mean they block almost 60% ?
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Re: pallies = squishiest tank now?

Postby heuvarius » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:11 pm

I'm not sure about druids, but all the plate tanks have lost a lot of armor, which certainly didn't help much for tank survival. I went from ~42k pre-patch down to ~30k armor now.

The other factor is the revamp of AD and the lower damage reduction percentage from spec/glyphs. This is somewhat offset by reforging block cap, but losing automatic AD procs is still a very significant difference to the average tankadin and their healers.
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Re: pallies = squishiest tank now?

Postby Kihra » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:24 am

There is definitely something odd going on in ICC. I was just getting rocked in ICC compared to last week, and I had a standing 30% reduction. Unblocked Sindragosa hits last week were about 30k or so. This week, I was taking more than that even with a 30% block off every hit. Her unblocked hits were well over 40k.

We only had time for a few pulls on Heroic LK, but the results were similar. I could get gibbed by an Enraged (not even Frenzied, just Enraged) shambler hit. The hit was just way too big. Even with 30% block knocked off the hit I'd still take over 70k.

I have no idea what's going on... if it's a combination of loss of armor, less physical DR from talents, the new Demo Shout being weaker than the old, or what, but I was fully expecting to take less damage in ICC with a constant 30% physical DR. Instead I found myself taking more.

This just doesn't seem right.
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Re: pallies = squishiest tank now?

Postby Punkss2 » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:35 am

Didn't they tune the mobs to hit harder with the patch? I "think" I saw that somewhere. Can anyone confirm?
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Re: pallies = squishiest tank now?

Postby Awyndel » Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:47 pm

well first of all you need to block cap. If you do I do not think we are squishy at all.

That being said it does seem that we lost more mitigation then we gained with all the damage reduction and armor being gone.

But also keep in mind a lot of healers can give you an absorb of some sort now. Since you have a larger health pool it is also important to keep hots and on hit procs running. If your healers are on the ball you should not be having freak accidents. Also make sure to use your minor cooldowns more often, and use that healthstone or word of glory if you have a threat lead.

That being said, I'm getting owned from time to time atm. We prolly need more practice.
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Re: pallies = squishiest tank now?

Postby steadypal » Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:07 pm

well during the this xpac and numbers tuning, they constantly added DR into talents, and shoot even added 3% to dp glyph, just wondering what happened for them to just remove all of that and now say we are fine, when we do seem to be the squishiest tank of the 4 atm, with druids OP just like they were start of this xpac,, then warriors,,, stupid crit block, and now us and dk's holding hands at the bottom of the group
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Re: pallies = squishiest tank now?

Postby Awyndel » Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:57 pm

This is prolly why blizzard is giving us the block cap pretty much for free in the beta right now. Or well, in the very least it will be very doable to gear for it when you gear yourself properly in raid gear.

Personally I would take the block cap over critical block any day.

Dk's seem to have a bit less damage reduction, but they have like literally the double amount of cooldowns. One of them is on 45 seconds and automatically procs on low health, in the old AD fashion. So I don't think they are too bad off if they press their buttons and the right time.

I haven't seen bear or warriors. But I really doubt that there are huge differences at this time.
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Re: pallies = squishiest tank now?

Postby Rondria » Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:12 am

Is any one else feelin´ unable to tank Hard Hitters?

We were in Heroic ICC 25 yesterday. Festergut was hitting me like a truck.

I reforged to get blockcap, but still have almost 50 % total avoidance. Changed my gems to more avoidance, but I still have 71 k HP, Armor is now about 30 k. My gear is from 25 heroic, except weapon and one ring. I´m using my CD´s when I fall under 30%. But when there´s no CD to use anymore, I´m gettin´ killed. Especially Festergut hits me for 30 k (after block!), together with Gastric Bloat, there´s often only one second left for the healers to get me back at full life. But their output isn´t the same as before, you know, spam doesn´t work any more.

Anyone an idea what I´m doing wrong? Isn´t it possible to tank Hard Hitters anymore? Our Feral had no problems btw.. He took about 20 k per hit, easy to heal. I´m a little bit upset at the moment... Can´t believe that everything´s working as intended.

P.S.: Sry for my bad english ^^
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Re: pallies = squishiest tank now?

Postby Fuin » Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:44 am

Lol you worried me a lot now, can't really tell much yet, but today I'll raid ICC 25 HC festergut so I'll share my experiance with you after that.
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Re: pallies = squishiest tank now?

Postby Fenrìr » Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:47 am

I was noticing in the alt 25 man normal mode last night that our DK tank was getting himself rocked on Festergut to the point of being crit for 57k. Yea, I thought about him not having 2/2 Improved Blood Presence, but everyone who could inspect him said he did. Not to mention, the warrior tank we had did not have 2/2 Bastion of Defense and never got crit on any boss. So I really do not think the whole mechanics of this 4.0.1 patch is even remotely close to being proper.
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Re: pallies = squishiest tank now?

Postby steadypal » Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:08 am

why would you guys let your warrior tank without points in that talent?
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Re: pallies = squishiest tank now?

Postby Kihra » Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:01 pm

Just to follow up, the issue here is that the new Cata armor formulas are being used for lvl 81+ mobs. My guildmate started a thread after we verified this for sure.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 3962&sid=1
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Re: pallies = squishiest tank now?

Postby exiledknight » Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:21 pm

We saw everything minus a warrior in action this week in ICC, managed 11/12 heroic with H LK left for monday as the server was so laggy and buggy phase 1 alone was a nightmare. The healers said they noticed all the tanks being hit harder, and actually it seemed as if our DK tank was getting hit the hardest, a lot obviously depends on the healers but we did not have too many problems overall.
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