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A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:35 pm

I'm home and I finally started to get to work on the logs.

Naked 0/34/0 Human Paladin with Dalaran Sword
151 Str
90 Agi
164 Sta
98 Int
108 Spi


522 AP / 178 SP - Insight/Consecration/Exorcism - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/e78iqifbmki9wpyh/
522 AP / 178 SP - SoR/Consecration/Exorcism - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/dh3e0x22jj76kpgo/

3330 AP / 927 SP - Consecration/Insight/Exorcism - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/htl9xjdnr88of5t9/
3330 AP / 927 SP - SoR/Consecration/Exorcism - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/xy1g6txsyhqtloym/

522 AP / 1754 SP - Consecration/Insight/Exorcism - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8wopqrjb7bx02t3k/ **, http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/ef2g3v7002kq8lps/ **
522 AP / 1754 SP - SoR/Consecration/Exorcism - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/neefbbqn7wyxzx4o/ **

Naked 0/32/0 Human Paladin with Dalaran Sword - No Hallowed Ground
522 AP / 178 SP - HW/Consecration - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/18uwxpj2stzkirbj/
3330 AP / 927 SP - HW/Consecration - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/zj1a0cmsb5j9znhq/ , http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/hyr3wy1smvf4co86/
522 AP / 1754 SP - HW/Consecration - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/vlizkc0scx7nxv5w/

---
** There might be some noise. Apparently, everyone else got the idea to hit the theramore dummies.

Quick Impressions:
SoR surely hits more than Insight, specially when judging.

YAY DONE!!!!
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby tlitp » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:35 pm

Requesting a few data sets.

AS on secondary targets :
  • spec : anything with 2/2 GrCr and 3/3 SotT
  • gear : naked
  • target : a boss-level as primary target, and at least one lower-lvl dummy as secondary target(s)
  • attack sequence : only CS/AS (with some J for mana), attacking the primary target from behind
  • goal : keep casting AS on the primary until you get at least two "miss" events

JotJ :
  • spec : anything with 0/2 JotJ
  • gear : any, but having equipped a slow weapon (2.6+)
  • target : any low-lvl dummy
  • attack sequence : only J, rotating the seals
  • goal : three sets of 1 J cast (T/R/J; let Censure stack to 5 prior to testing T), and then 10 additional J casts (I)

WoG :
  • buffs : RF
  • report WoG's heal/threat output on both full heal/overheal
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Sinnegorth » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:10 am

Heya Theck here's a parse from a TOGC 10 we did last night with the new talents.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/nv14qvfc193pvlcm/

You can get some numbers from both me and Parvo - both pally tanks. He tanked all fights and I did ret for the first three and tanked the last two with mixed results: I'm happy with tank but omg my ret DPS was horribad. I don't have a shadowmourne and usually just fill in playing ret but these numbers are ugly imo.

Meanwhile confirmed: Mages and Locks OWN.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby theckhd » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:26 am

New request: There are conflicting reports on whether the T10 2-piece bonus or Glyph of HotR affect the AoE portion of HotR. A quick parse of about 50 HotR's (hit as many dummies as possible with the nova) with and without the set bonus should be able to discriminate between the two. Similarly with the glyph.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby theckhd » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:36 am

Also, can anyone confirm or refute this post on EJ?

I'm sorry if this was posted elsewhere and I missed it, but it appears the scaling of hit rating to % hit has changed for melee attacks at 80. Previously, to cap hit, you needed 32.79 hit rating per percent hit (so you would hit cap at 263), but on the character panel in 4.0.1, I'm sitting at 8.23% hit with 253 rating (so 30.74 rating per percent), so one needs 246 to
cap melee hit.

I'm not sure if this was documented anywhere or if it's intended, but until it changes, it gives a little bit of hit you might be able to reforge to haste. I spent around 2000 swings yesterday total trying to test if this was a display bug; while it's not a definite test, I didn't miss in that time, so there is a possibility that it really changed.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:40 am

theckhd wrote:Also, can anyone confirm or refute this post on EJ?

I'm sorry if this was posted elsewhere and I missed it, but it appears the scaling of hit rating to % hit has changed for melee attacks at 80. Previously, to cap hit, you needed 32.79 hit rating per percent hit (so you would hit cap at 263), but on the character panel in 4.0.1, I'm sitting at 8.23% hit with 253 rating (so 30.74 rating per percent), so one needs 246 to
cap melee hit.

I'm not sure if this was documented anywhere or if it's intended, but until it changes, it gives a little bit of hit you might be able to reforge to haste. I spent around 2000 swings yesterday total trying to test if this was a display bug; while it's not a definite test, I didn't miss in that time, so there is a possibility that it really changed.


I can't confirm the exact number he gives, but I can confirm that while I was messing with reforging, my char sheet hit cap for L83 wasn't at 263 rating anymore
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Rhiannon » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:45 am

Can confirm that 246 hit rating is now 8% melee hit.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Chicken » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:47 am

Rhiannon wrote:Can confirm that 246 hit rating is now 8% melee hit.
If that's on your Paladin that just confuses matters more. The Draenei hit bonus shows on the character screen now, while the EJ poster in question was a human reporting the same thing.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Rhiannon » Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:20 pm

Nono, that's 246 = 8% for everyone. On my draenei I've 214 hit rating, and character sheet shows:

Hit Chance +7.96%
Hit Rating 214 (+6.96%)

So 6.96% = 214, 1% = 30.75, 8% = 245.98.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby AriKT » Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:30 pm

Its 246 = 8% now. Some of the ratings have been adjusted a bit. Haste, Hit, and Expertise for sure. The new ratings are here: http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t29453-comb ... cataclysm/
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:29 pm

when is that jerk whitetooth going to update ratingbuster :(
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby theckhd » Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:30 pm

theckhd wrote:Also, can anyone confirm or refute this post on EJ?


Going to post before tlitp can chime in and call me a dumbass. Apparently he updated those coefficients in the code weeks ago. All I had to do was look at the stat conversion module to see they were already implemented.

:oops:
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby tlitp » Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:29 am

theckhd wrote:
theckhd wrote:Also, can anyone confirm or refute this post on EJ?


Going to post before tlitp can chime in and call me a dumbass. Apparently he updated those coefficients in the code weeks ago. All I had to do was look at the stat conversion module to see they were already implemented.

:oops:

Dumbass or not, you're still getting all the chicks. Being a Rogue has its drawbacks. :P

Moving on to the business, this list is still valid. Moreover, teh interwebz seem to have exploded as Ret-centric paladins cry tears of joy. In other words, the common abilities (CS/HoW primarily, perhaps even HW/Cons/Exo) will have to be retested. I do suggest to wait a bit for things to cool down, though.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby theckhd » Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:03 am

Looking back at Klaud's Exorcism/SoR/SoI data sets:

Code: Select all
  AP          SP         Exo         JoI         JoR         SoR
522         178        1744         206         258          16
3330         927        2359        1225        1540          95
522        1754        2015         837        1065          74


Data sets #1 and #3 can be used to determine SP scaling on certain skills:

SoR: (74-16)/(1754-178)/1.4/1.12 = 0.0235 (model has 0.022)
JoR: (1065-258)/(1754-178)/1.6 = 0.32 (model has 0.25)
JoI: (837-206)/(1754-178)/1.6 = 0.2502 (model has 0.25)
Exo: (2015-1744)/(1754-522) = 0.22 (model has 0.15, but this was an announced change)

The SoR coefficient could explain why SoR damages have been consistently about 7% low in every test. Exorcism's coefficient is clearly 0.22, and JoI is 0.25 within error. It looks like they buffed JoR though. On the other hand, it was very early in beta when I coded them, and since there wasn't much information available I may have guessed that they were all the same based on SoI and SoJ.

Using the SP coefficients we calculated, we can try and find the AP coefficients from sets #1 and #2:

SoR: ((95-16)/1.4/1.12-0.0235*(927-178))/(3330-522) = 0.0117 (model has 0.011)
JoR: ((1540-258)/1.6-0.32*(927-178))/(3330-522) = 0.2000 (model has 0.16)
JoI: ((1225-206)/1.6-0.25*(927-178))/(3330-522) = 0.1601 (model has 0.16)
Exo: (2359-1744)/(3330-522) = 0.2190 (known to be 0.22)

Again, Exo and JoI come in exactly right. JoR seems to have been buffed by about 25% again. It's hard to say whether SoR should be 0.011 or 0.0112 because of rounding errors; if I take the most favorable situation (94.5-16.4 and round the SP coefficient to 0.024) I get 0.0113 for the AP coefficient. If I had to make a guess, they either left the AP coefficient at 0.011 and buffed the SP coefficient to 0.024, or they buffed both (to 0.0115 and 0.0235 respectively). The differentce probably isn't too significant for us since we're talking about errors of around 1% or so.

Using thse coefficients, we can work backwards to determine the base damage:

SoR: 95/1.4/1.12-0.0235*927-0.0115*3330 = 0.5072 (model has 0)
JoR: 1540/1.6-0.32*927-0.2*3330 = -0.14 (model has 1)
JoI: 1225/1.6-0.25*927-0.16*3330 = 1 (model has 1)
Exo: 2359-0.22*3330 = 1626 (model has 1018-1136, or 1077 average)

If my memory is correct, they buffed the base damage by 50% in a recent build, and 1626/1077=1.5097, consistent with that change. So the new Exo base damage @ 80 should be 1527-1704.

The other three all agree very well with the model. So I think we've nailed down the formulas for these skills, provided they haven't changed from the last PTR build:

SoR: gear_swing*(0.0115*AP+0.0235*SP) (possibly 0.011 and 0.024)
JoR: (1+0.2*AP+0.32*SP)
JoI: (1+0.16*AP+0.25*SP)
Exo: (1626+0.22*max([AP SP]))
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:46 am

out of curiosity, what about Cons and HW with and without Hallowed Ground?
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