4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Rhiannon » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:00 pm

Treck wrote:PotI is useless for tanks, your not gonna go around throwing any heals, eather your OTing and not busy at one point and can heal, but then your heal on yourself will be wasted anyway since your not tanking, and IF it proccs on LoH, then grats, LoH will now heal you up to 100% instead of 100%.
Since the fight isnt threatheavy, esp not tanking outside, id say its a worthy fight for getting the WoG talents and helping the healers out.


Don't those two lines directly contradict each other? o_O
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Kihra » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:07 pm

Treck wrote:PotI is useless for tanks, your not gonna go around throwing any heals, eather your OTing and not busy at one point and can heal, but then your heal on yourself will be wasted anyway since your not tanking, and IF it proccs on LoH, then grats, LoH will now heal you up to 100% instead of 100%.


PotI works with Word of Glory. You basically get an extra 4k from PotI when you heal yourself with WoG. I don't think it's useless at all. You sacrifice a minimal amount of threat to get it. It's especially potent if you cast 1-HoPo WoGs, since you get the 4k tacked on to each WoG heal. Even if they nerf WoG scaling off Vengeance, you'll still get 8k heals every 3 seconds if you do 1-HoPo WoG spam. 24k worth of healing during one phase of cutters is fantastic.

Once you factor in Eternal Glory procs, you then continue to get PotI on each extra WoG you're able to spam.

Right now WoG+PotI+Eternal Glory+GtBL are awesome together. I plan to have two prot specs: the threat spec and the WoG spec. I'll be using the latter on Sindy, LK and Halion.
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Phonic » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:37 pm

Treck, decent point on EfaE... Probably skippable, it isn't reducing any damage.

As others have mentioned, if you're going to go full out on WoG, then definitely PotI is a worthwhile talent since you're pretty much double dipping at that point. Long Word glyph may not be worth it, I gotta get in there to see. The reason why a HOT might be nice is because once I have a good threat lead in that fight, I might exclusively be using WoG with my 3HoPo.

DP glyph is worthwhile IMO. 20% magic during breaths is pretty decent. Rotate that and Sindy's Fang and you probably have 3/4 of the breaths covered. And atm, the bug is 40% magic damage WITH 20% physical, so that'll be nice to abuse for a bit, lol

DG atm is bugged also, so I'll definitely get that one for now. Otherwise, it's a great talent for progression fights at 85. Another reason to bring a prot pally.
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Sielanas » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:49 pm

Redleg wrote:PotI does add to your self healing from WoG also. I'm not saying I'd take it at level 80, but at 85 when you have more points to spend, it may be useful in a max survivability build.


Just remember that PotI gets it's own entry in the combat log and doesn't double-dip into GbtL. One of the thoughts I tested the other night on PTR, was a little disappointed.

Also, looking at lvl80 content still wouldn't it be worth tossing a WoG on the MT if you're stuck in OT role? I'm thinking of Sindy/BQL/Fester. Like Salving myself as BQL OT, saves the healers mana and time.
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Phonic » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:53 pm

Sielanas wrote:
Just remember that PotI gets it's own entry in the combat log and doesn't double-dip into GbtL. One of the thoughts I tested the other night on PTR, was a little disappointed.

Also, looking at lvl80 content still wouldn't it be worth tossing a WoG on the MT if you're stuck in OT role? I'm thinking of Sindy/BQL/Fester. Like Salving myself as BQL OT, saves the healers mana and time.


When I said "double dip" I meant it in the sense that it's really two heals for 1 GCD. In terms of WoG the MT... it isn't as lucrative since the 60% to WoG is only gained when cast on self. But I guess you still get PotI so while the WoG is weaker (and no bubble potential), you still get 2 heals for 1 GCD.
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:54 pm

Moving this because 4.0.1 is now out
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Treck » Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:47 pm

Phonic wrote:Treck, decent point on EfaE... Probably skippable, it isn't reducing any damage.

As others have mentioned, if you're going to go full out on WoG, then definitely PotI is a worthwhile talent since you're pretty much double dipping at that point. Long Word glyph may not be worth it, I gotta get in there to see. The reason why a HOT might be nice is because once I have a good threat lead in that fight, I might exclusively be using WoG with my 3HoPo.

DP glyph is worthwhile IMO. 20% magic during breaths is pretty decent. Rotate that and Sindy's Fang and you probably have 3/4 of the breaths covered. And atm, the bug is 40% magic damage WITH 20% physical, so that'll be nice to abuse for a bit, lol

DG atm is bugged also, so I'll definitely get that one for now. Otherwise, it's a great talent for progression fights at 85. Another reason to bring a prot pally.


What i mean is, that i dont see WoG to be much of a usefull ability, not in 4.0 and not in cata.
I do like that the option is there, but i dont think its going to save you, or your healers mana, by using it.
WoG becomes a little better with PotI, but while its less "bad" i dont beleave its going to make it "great".
This will have to be seen with the "real" numbers, and depending on their outcome, we shall see how it is going to be.
Im not planning on building around WoG, obviously it needs to be tried, but i wont keep my hopes high.

The biggest problem i have with WoG is that its a "bad" heal. Its a heal, not when you want it, but when you "happends" to have it.
If you got 3hp, are you gonna stand around waiting for a big hit before using it?
Sure you get the bubble for all +100% healed, but WoG is not a big heal, and the PotI heal that lands after WoG is not included in that bubble.
Then its on the GCD (would obviously be OP for holypallys or PvP in general if it wasnt).
So you have to stop what your doing if you want to "optimize" it.
You can always throw one in in panic after a big hit if you see it fast enough (depending on how GCD capped we will be) it wont be that effective, but sure better than nothing.

Obviously the DP glyph is worthwhile if its "bugged" and gives 20% dmg reduction and another 20% to magic, its a win win since your not sacrificing anything.
However a common misconception on Halion (and Sindrigosa pre icc buffs atleast when it was noticable) you want to survive the meele attacks, NOT the breaths.
Breaths alone will NEVER kill you, hits will. (you should obviously not tank sindrigosa with multiple mystic buffet stacks and take a breath to the face without a CD)
2x meele hits can kill you, a breath + meelehit might kill you, but most likely not. (hits about 30-35k, breaths about 15-20k) not to mention that the breaths give the healers time to time their heals, and is far from as "spiky" as 2 meele hits in a row.
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Rhiannon » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:00 pm

"Sure you get the bubble for all +100% healed, but WoG is not a big heal, and the PotI heal that lands after WoG is not included in that bubble."

Not sure how it is at 80 numbers, but WoG's critting for in the region of 30k+ (though admittedly my spec had the +crit chance from tier 2 ret, so I was seeing crits reasonably frequently) at the moment on beta at 85 with vengeance up. I'd consider that a fairly large heal. Still, ~20k normal heals/shields aren't insignificant.
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby theckhd » Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:10 pm

My 4.0 talent guide is completed and updated. I haven't been following this thread that closely (but I should now), so if you have any suggestions based on discussions in this thread, I'd like to hear them.

I have suggested builds for "general purpose," "threat," and "survivability" in the Guide. That may be relevant to the current discussion of PotI/GbtL/EG.
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Axodious » Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:53 pm

Should start posting these using WoWTal so we can use the awesome /run macro!
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Treck » Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:19 am

Rhiannon wrote:Not sure how it is at 80 numbers, but WoG's critting for in the region of 30k+ (though admittedly my spec had the +crit chance from tier 2 ret, so I was seeing crits reasonably frequently) at the moment on beta at 85 with vengeance up. I'd consider that a fairly large heal. Still, ~20k normal heals/shields aren't insignificant.

Been trying to see it critt for 20min, didnt see a single one, id be suprised if it couldnt critt, but i cant see it anyway.
In average a WoG specced and all heals for 9k. If a critt would be 20k, thats just above 20% of your maximal HP, but you cant expect it to critt when you need it.
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Phonic » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:36 am

Axodious wrote:Should start posting these using WoWTal so we can use the awesome /run macro!


yeah, i should... sorry for that, my work computer won't allow access to wowtal for some reason, hence why I have to use wowhead.
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