Block-capping, unfortunate future.

SPOILERS Discussion about the Cataclysm Beta SPOILERS

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Sabindeus, PsiVen

Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby Warsadin » Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:37 pm

Well judging by the math done of Mastery scaling, using gear already in-game and their associated ilvls, with enough reforging, Paladins will be able to reach our old friend 102.4% avoidance/mitigation, aka unhittable, formerly uncrushable, aka passive marmot status.

This was using gear done that is available in t11, which is listed in the beginning of this thread:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 1&pageNo=1

I'm actually Warstehdruid(I'm original with naming characters) and have been helping with the conversation, or hurting the conversation as it may be. Though it looks as if Paladins will be quickly able to just take 30% off all physical damage once we're stacked with ilvl359 gear in t11.

I do not like the way this looks one bit. That means they're going to have to change our mastery scaling. Another idea was to change block to be on a second roll for attack, since right now we have a single roll physical attack system on bosses.

/Sadface. What do you guys think?
Image
User avatar
Warsadin
 
Posts: 224
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:00 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby theckhd » Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:56 pm

I think it's highly unlikely that they'll change the combat system that dramatically. It's far more likely they'll nerf or change our mastery, possibly to be similar to a warrior's. Perhaps 1.25-1.5% block chance and 0.25% more damage blocked (rather than critical block).
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 6.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 8001
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby Warsadin » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:02 pm

Yeah, the double roll system would be an immense change and one I don't see a realistic future of.

Nerfing the mastery itself makes me a sad panda. Though it is very easily apparent that it scales much too well.
Image
User avatar
Warsadin
 
Posts: 224
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:00 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby AriKT » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:04 pm

That guy Zarko uses contrived examples to get what he wants across, or to push his agenda. He doesn't like that his cooldown, Shield Block, scales backwards with Mastery. Yet, against melee damage its by far the stronger cooldown when you aren't near block cap. He's stacking mastery in every slot, including gems and enchants. Are tanks with JC really going to use Mastery Chimera's Eyes and Mastery Gems in extra sockets? He also does no analysis of damage taken over time in that setup over using pure avoidance. I'm sure there is some point where Mastery may outscale Dodge or Parry Rating due to DR, but its doubt its in the first tier. So what if you can block cap if you are going to take more damage than a properly geared tank? However, it is quite likely in later tiers that we can block cap and not do it by screwing up our stats.
AriKT
 
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:24 pm

Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby Warsadin » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:06 pm

Well, the question remains though, since it is possible;

If it is possible in the gear available, to always take 30% less physical damage as a paladin, wouldn't it be the preferred way to gear?
Image
User avatar
Warsadin
 
Posts: 224
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:00 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby AriKT » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:07 pm

Oh, and where does he get that random Dodge Rating in the Buffs line? I didn't think there were Dodge Rating buffs.
AriKT
 
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:24 pm

Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby Warsadin » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:08 pm

AriKT wrote:Oh, and where does he get that random Dodge Rating in the Buffs line? I didn't think there were Dodge Rating buffs.


I think you're lookin at the 879, which is from the immense amount of Agility we gain from a DKs horn of winter. There is something like a 7% avoidance difference for tanks with and without HoW.

http://cata.wowhead.com/spell=57330
Image
User avatar
Warsadin
 
Posts: 224
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:00 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby AriKT » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:09 pm

Warsadin wrote:Well, the question remains though, since it is possible;

If it is possible in the gear available, to always take 30% less physical damage as a paladin, wouldn't it be the preferred way to gear?


Depends on what you are giving up for that block cap. Would you sacrafice all your avoidance to be block capped all the time? He's giving up a LOT of health and a lot of avoidance to get Mastery that high.

At level 80, its easy to Block Cap without giving up much. But, his example it would be like cutting off your leg to do it.
AriKT
 
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:24 pm

Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby Dantriges » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:10 pm

I thought about some overflow system that turns mastery over block cap intodamage reduce but probably they will go with something like Thehkd proposed.

Well if reaching blockcap is favourable and there are some arguments for it like being easier to heal or having reliable 30% DR, we will probably stack mastery. Don´t know if warriors would do the same.

Yeah a compairson to avoidance would be nice but well I think he works from the assumption 30% always is better than more no damage someways. You don´t gamble with the RNG this way.
Dantriges
 
Posts: 1252
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:39 am

Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby AriKT » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:12 pm

So which tank will give up his Stamina gems for Mastery just to do this?
AriKT
 
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:24 pm

Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby Dantriges » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:13 pm

Yeah that´s probably a bit out there. Perhaps for a special set. But30% DR all the time for a melee boss, puh you need a lot of stamina to copensate that. But haven´t looked at the gems.
Dantriges
 
Posts: 1252
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:39 am

Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby Warsadin » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:17 pm

The entire reason I am bringing this into our forums, is I want you all on a crusade with me against it.

I do not want block capping in any way due to having to waste all my gearing efforts on stacking it to the cap. Do not want.

Obviously we haven't had any official statements on this from GC or anyone else, though I do think it will be addressed as the thread is growing larger and larger since yesterday.

If you look at the health, it's hardly a big jump for any of the tanks. If you convert all the gems to stam gems, you're still going to have about the same ratios.

For a paladin it's 7 gems which I'm not even sure looking at the table he's gemming with straight Mastery, looks more like he's going for socket bonuses.
Image
User avatar
Warsadin
 
Posts: 224
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:00 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby AriKT » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:22 pm

Yes he does. Look at the line assumptions from sockets. Its 360 Mastery, and 0 Stamina. The bonuses from JC and BS are Mastery and not Stamina.
AriKT
 
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:24 pm

Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby Warsadin » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:25 pm

Yup, you're right, 360 in Mastery gems.

Compared to 360 Stam.


It's a sizable difference, but is it better to trade the stam gems for the additional unblocked hits?
Image
User avatar
Warsadin
 
Posts: 224
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:00 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby Flex » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:26 pm

his damage taken numbers have paladins taking the most damage with this set up. Seems like a smart thing to do!
We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.
User avatar
Flex
 
Posts: 7505
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:29 am

Next

Return to Cataclysm

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

Who is online

In total there are 0 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 0 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests