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A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, theckhd

Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Chicken » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:41 am

You could try the Argent Tournament Grounds. The ranged and charge jousting dummies aren't suitable as targets due to having a damage reduction buff, but the melee jousting dummy should work just fine; it only counterattacks those who are jousting not people on foot.

I haven't been there in ages though, so chances are they're too spread out.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:06 am

I don't mind doing it for 30 mins, what I can't stand is people messing with my numbers.

Procc'd a faction change, became a draenei, got to the dummies, start whacking 3 at a time when no one was there, all of the sudden, I got a mage, a shaman and god knows what else come out of somewhere and target the dummy I was targeting.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Kierly » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:34 am

Yeah love how you can be sitting there attacking a dummy and a moonkin starts to attack the one you are attacking when there are 5 other unused dummies at the time.

okay got some data for HotR testing

Had to switch around between dummies to keep from having debuffs affect the spell damage.
So any physical hits wont be real accurate. Let me know if you need any other information about this parse.
558 AP / 3113 SP -- used 264 lockjaw for this test
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/xitt3tse8b43mc3f/details/4/
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Arianne » Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:11 pm

Can we use the level 1 Theramore dummies for the HotR test? We should be able to hit around 5-6 of them at a time.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby theckhd » Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:20 pm

Probably, I've never tried using them. But give it a shot, the biggest issue I can see you having is getting loads of crits due to the level difference.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby theckhd » Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:47 pm

Kierly wrote:Yeah love how you can be sitting there attacking a dummy and a moonkin starts to attack the one you are attacking when there are 5 other unused dummies at the time.

okay got some data for HotR testing

Had to switch around between dummies to keep from having debuffs affect the spell damage.
So any physical hits wont be real accurate. Let me know if you need any other information about this parse.
558 AP / 3113 SP -- used 264 lockjaw for this test
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/xitt3tse8b43mc3f/details/4/


Yeah, you're still hitting for around 753 damage on average at 3113 SP. There's no way that it scales with SP at all. The coefficient would have to be less than 0.003, which is fairly ridiculous.

Myth confirmed - HotR does not scale with SP.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:42 am

Makes me wonder why some people were claiming they were doing much much better AoE with some SP gear on them on the forums. I wonder if it was the placebo effect.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby theckhd » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:02 am

Well, that could have been before the HotR change. It used to scale off of spellpower before 3-second CS was implemented on PTR, and presumably still does on beta.

HW scales exclusively with SP and Cons scales with both equally, so the SP on a caster weapon could still be a noticeable TPS increase. It probably won't be for single targets, but it might still be viable for AoE tanking.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:19 am

Makes no sense however if HW is supposed to be our AoE snap aggro tool to have it scale exclusively on SP.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby theckhd » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:40 am

If I had to guess, the original design was to have our single target stuff scale mostly with AP but our AoE attacks scale mostly with SP to keep the damages low. When it was made apparent that AoE tanking was a PITA though, and that DPS skills were scaling faster (because they were based on the proper stats), they added AP scaling to HotR to help fix it.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby theckhd » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:46 am

Next up: Could I get some Exorcism and SoR data to make sure those formulas are correct? Use a Dalaran Sword, and a couple different gear sets (naked, high SP, high AP). Another weapon would be fine as well (but give base speed and base damage values from the tooltip if you do).

I have a busy day today, but I plan on spending whatever time I can find this afternoon and evening starting to crank out sims in case 4.0 is tomorrow.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby alsache » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:22 am

Unless coincidentally they needed a 12 hr maintenance window for tomorrow.... 4.0.1 is tomorrow.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:34 am

theckhd wrote:Next up: Could I get some Exorcism and SoR data to make sure those formulas are correct? Use a Dalaran Sword, and a couple different gear sets (naked, high SP, high AP). Another weapon would be fine as well (but give base speed and base damage values from the tooltip if you do).

I have a busy day today, but I plan on spending whatever time I can find this afternoon and evening starting to crank out sims in case 4.0 is tomorrow.


I'll see what I can do later today, will prolly have to use the theramore dummies -- as for HotR, yeah, that makes sense that they fixed it with AP, but still HW, wouldnt it make sense if it used either AP or SP, whichever is higher. HW is just not doing what is supposed to do, that is being snap aggro -- or maybe it was never supposed to be our snap aggro tool, but some people have made it work with stat tweaking (SP gear) and I'm reading their intentions wrong.

PS. By SoR, you mean Seal of Righteousness?
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby theckhd » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:43 pm

Klaudandus wrote:PS. By SoR, you mean Seal of Righteousness?


Yep.

Also, I'll need volunteers to do some testing tomorrow if 4.0 goes live. We'll want at least one or two parses (again, naked with a DS should work) to confirm that the mechanics on live match those on the PTR.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:53 pm

Notes of interest.

Holy Wrath now scales from 30% of Spell Power instead of 7% AP + 7% Spell Power. Base damage increased from 1234 to 2153 at 80. Now damages all types of targets, but only stuns Demons and Undeads for 3 seconds. Cooldown reduced from 30 sec to 15 sec.

Consecration now deals 729 Holy damage over 10 sec, down from [ 32% of AP + 32% of Spell Power + 904 ] Holy damage over 8 sec. Now costs 55% of base mana, up from 22% of base mana. Cooldown increased from 8 sec to 30 sec.

Exorcism now scales from 15% of Spell Power or Attack Power (depending on which is the highest). Deals [ 15% of max( Spell Power, AP ) + 1615.925 ] Holy damage, up from [ 15% of AP + 15% of Spell Power + 1028 ]. Now costs 30% of base mana, up from 8% of base mana. Cooldown removed.


As per the request, will test all 3 scenarios with naked/HighAP/HighSP once I get home.

Also, I guess this confirms that HW was never meant to be a snap AoE aggro tool. =(
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