4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

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4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby knaughty » Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:46 am

Please keep this thread on-topic.
It's a basic training FAQ for how to be a MT.

4.0.3a "Level to 85" version. Updated December 6th.

Feel free to make suggestions.


Philosophy of the FAQ AKA: Knaughty is biased

Skip this section if you're uninterested in my personal viewpoint. Actual answers start in Mechanics & play changes in the next post.

Q: What's the point & purpose of this FAQ?
A: Short & simple answers for people who want a quick fix.
The basic assumption is that the reader is a protection spec paladin who hasn't followed every beta patch note in gory detail, or read every single thousand-post sticky on this forum. Or you're a Holy/Ret/SomeOtherClass re-roll wanting some quick advice on how to tank as a pally.

If you don't like the shortness of the answers, do your own damn research - the links under I want more info! in the fifth post of this thread are a great start.

Q: You're biased!
A: Yes, very.
This is a guide for people who want to be "progression raiding main tanks" - that's all I've done since 2.0, it's all I know, so that's the advice you get. It assumes you'll be MTing a progression-focussed raid - 10 or 25 doesn't matter much, but you'll be trying for hard-modes eventually. The FAQ also doesn't present the subtleties - just the "standard answer". There are no provisos or subtly nuanced examples of edge cases. I'm a (semi-retired) tanking officer for a World 500-ish (on a good day) guild, so I see most stuff fairly promptly. There's half a dozen or so common posters here who are more advanced, including at least one "top 20" I can think of. If you're not aiming for hard modes, my guides (and this forum) may be too hard-core, but in Basic Training we try and get you hooked slowly.

Q: I think you're wrong and am going to flame you!
A: Official forums ---> thataway. Oh, and expect to be flamed back, I enjoy it.

Q: You're rude and mean!
A: Yup.
It's not really true though. Ask a polite question (even a noob one) and you'll get a polite (if terse) answer (and maybe an update to the FAQ if I think the question is "F" enough). Ask a rude or argumentative question, and I'll joyfully tear you apart. Sorry, it's a flaw, I enjoy baiting the trolls. I'm pretty sure it's the main reason Aergis has never been brave enough to make me a moderator :P

Q: You don't talk about trash mobs, enchants, or detailed gear selection!
A: Correct! Being a MT is a responsibility, you need to be willing to learn how to do your job. If you need that level of training the links under I want more info! in the fifth post are a great start. Or even WoWwiki. This FAQ is to get you started with the basics in heroic content and your first raids. After that... you're off to the Advanced Training forum.

Q: You're just regurgitating stuff other people *cough*TheckHD*cough* have already posted!
A: Yup. That's the point. What's the Wikipedia quote? No original research! This FAQ contains bugger all research. Just a one-shop-stop for (opinionated) advice on questions frequently answered.

That's my philosophy, now...

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Last edited by knaughty on Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:25 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby knaughty » Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:47 am

Mechanics & Play changes:

Welcome to Cataclysm. Tankadins just got broken. Thankfully GC stepped in at the last damn minute and we got rebuilt into the $6million dollar tank. Just be aware that six million just doesn't go as far as it did in the 70's.

Q: @^%$@!! Everything is different!?
A: Yes. 4.0 is a pretty massive reboot. GC/Blizz didn't like where Wrath ended up, the pace of the game is being dropped and basic mechanics play differently. Tanks will live through a few hits - you won't be dead before a healer can heal you, so they won't have to be spamming their highest throughput heal. This is lucky, because mana regen is being nerfed TO THE GROUND, BABY! Basically the new mechanic for healers is "Play smart or go OOM". Think "Vanilla" if you were playing back then. There will be fewer (no?) AoE death zones or raid-wide AoE damage auras, so DPS won't have to be spammed instantly back to full health either. There's also further commoditisation of buffs & debuffs - for example, Kings and MotW are the same thing now, and BoW and BoM were merged. Mages and BM hunters bring Blooslust. (Actually, BM hunters bring everything, depending on what pet they summon). Bring the player, not the class

Rest of FAQ will stick to tanking & paladin mechanics.

Q: Zomg, what happened to the talent trees?
A: More Back To The Future! Welcome to Vanila-sized talent trees, but with a massive perk: You pick a spec at level 10 and get some signature abilities for that spec, but then have to put 31 points in that spec before you can put points elsewhere. Awesome change. Lets Blizzard put a pile of spec-defining abilities at level 10, instead of, say, 52... Also solves the "I spec half-and-half" problems that Blizzard's been having since TBC.

Q: What? I have to pick a spec?
A: Yup. Click a button and pick Holy, Ret or Prot. Picking a spec defines your "Mastery" bonus and gets you these:
  • Holy get Holy Shock, spirit-based mana regen, and 10% to healing.
  • Ret get Templar's Verdict, +20% to 2H damage, mana regen from Judging, and passive +hit/spellpower.
  • Prot get Avenger' Shield, Vengeance (see below) and mana regen from Judging, and passive +hit/spellpower/stamina (and a 3.0 sec CD on Crusader Strike that isn't mentioned anywhere)

Q: Where'd all my passive talents go?
A: Deleted. Only 31 talent points means that most of the boring talents like "+1% to damage" are gone. Instead you only get interesting talents that do something. The goal is you notice when you spend a talent point. Think "modern computer RPG" - you spend a point, you get something good. Lots of talents are also "Good, but not DPS or heals" - lots of flavour/situational talents. Blizzard's stated goal is "Stick last 10 points in whatever seems awesome to you" and also a smaller gap between PvE and PvP specs.

Q: Huh? What's Mastery?
A: Every spec gets a semi-unique nifty boost from high-end gear. Problem: Too many trinket and ranged-slot thingies to make when you have 30 specs, also people whine about wrong crit/haste/hit ratios for their special snowflake spec. Solution: Mastery. Just think of it as "Awesome Rating". Whatever spec you are, right now, Mastery = Awesome. The mastery bonuses for paladins are:
  • Holy: All heals also drop a shield (think PW:S) on the target.
  • Ret a chance for their finishers to use no Holy Power. Back-to-back Templar's Verdicts!
  • Prot get to block more often. Boring but effective.

Q: What? Block sucks!
A: Not when it blocks 40% of the hit. Cataclysm paladins take a flat 40% off the hit you just blocked, rather than a fixed number. Fixed block value sucked - they trivialised old content and sucked for progression: At level 70 in tier 6+ gear, I could AE tank 30+ level 70 mobs at once, because they hit for zero, at level 80 you could solo level 70 raid bosses. And it sucked to block for 1600 when the Lich King is punching you in the face for 50,000. Warrior block is similar - they mostly block for 30%, but sometimes get a critical block for 60%. Our Mastery ratings scale differently and block is still being tuned across the shield tanks.

Q: Where's all my defence go?
A: Deleted. Boring stat was boring. All tanks get a (mandatory) talent for -6% to be crit. Block Rating & Value, ArP, MP5 also all got deleted. If you needed MATLAB to work out if something was good or sucked, it's gone. They also made Haste and Crit pretty decent for everyone (except tanks - we stack stamina, avoidance and master). Bonus Armour, Attack Power and spell-power are also pretty much gone.

Q: They deleted AP and spellpower?
A: Yes. Plate DPS get 2 AP per point of strength. All other physical DPS get 2 AP per point of agility. Plate has strength, leather and mail have agility. Casters get 2 spellpower per point of Int, so their gear has Int. Most specs also get +5% to something really good in exchange for wearing a full set of "correct" armour. Caster weapons will have spellpower until Blizzard fix their itemisation spreadsheet.

Q: What's Vengeance?
A: The fix for tank scaling in raids sucking. Same thing has happened every expansion: Tank threat starts fine, then everyone gets massive gear upgrades. DPS get big DPS boosts, tanks get avoidance and EH. Second part of problem: Raid buffs boost DPS a lot, boost tank threat a tiny bit. Outcome? DPS peel off tanks when we hit the third raid tier. Solution: When you get hit, your AP goes up, capped proportionally of your stamina. Result is that as your stamina increases, your AP goes up, but only in a raid when a boss is smashing your face off. It's also super-easy to tune. We hit 4.3, and tank threat is low? Buff Vengeance, problem solved for all tanks.
A: Not well balanced at the moment In circumstances where Vengeance stacks to maximum, tank threat becomes so insane it becomes irrelevant and you can spam WoG.

Q: What's Holy Power?
A: Combo Points that stack on you instead of target. All paladins get up to three Holy Power points, then spend them on something nifty. Holy get them from Holy Shock and healing their beacon target. Ret get them from CS & procs. We get them from CS or HotR, and have a small proc to make Word of Glory free sometimes if we talent into it. Holy spend their Holy Power on free heals, Ret keep up Slice-n-Dice Inquisition and blow the rest on Templar's Verdict.

Q: What do we use our Holy Power for?
A: It depends! We can heal ourselves with Word of Glory, and there's a ton of talents available to prop it up, and it's fairly powerful. We can pop Inquisition (at level 81+), but it uses most of our Holy Power to keep it up. But mostly we just use ShoR, which hits like a truck single-target. Design goal is
  • ShoR single target
  • Inquisition followed by Consecrate/Holy Wrath/HotR for AE
  • WoG to save your healers some mana or when things go to hell. Costs you a lot of TPS, but you may not care.

Q: What Blessing do I use?
A: Kings if you're going to die and there's no druid. Might if your DPS are stupid. Mark of the Wild and Kings are the same thing now, and they don't stack. If there's a druid in the group, cast Might. BoM is more threat than Kings, so use that if your DPS are dumb and you don't feel like repeatedly killing them. If someone asks for Wisdom, feel free to be a sarcastic arse, you have my permission.
Last edited by knaughty on Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:26 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby knaughty » Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:47 am

Talents, Glyphs, Basic Builds:
If anyone finds a Cataclysm talent calculator that allows "invalid" builds, please PM me. Or if you can get MMO-Champ or WoW-Head to respond to my PMs on the subject, that would be awesome.

Q: OMG, Cataclysm hit and I'm levelling prot starting in 5 minutes tell me how to spec?
A: 0/32/4

Q: What about Hallowed Ground?
A: It sucks We barely cast Consecrate and even when we do we don't need the mana reduction, and it's the worst TPS talent that exists.

Q: What about Seals of the Pure?
A: Don't you have to level in 5 minutes?
Grand Crusader is better than SotP but it's complicated to use correctly
I'll explain the correct way to use it in the rotation section, but if you're feeling overwhelmed dealing with 939+HoPo, feel free to skip GC and pick SotP instead.

Q: Wait.. Reckoning?
A: Yes, it's good in Cata, 3rd best threat talent.

Q: What about 85?
A: 0/31/10 That, or some sensible variant. Subject to change, yadda, yadda.
Rule of Law is more TPS than SotP (last I checked). I like PoJ. Grand Crusader is OK. I'd probably pick most WoG improving talents given current excess TPS generated by tanks in raids. Hallowed Ground is shit TPS, so skip it.

Q: What about my glyphs?
A: Here's the basics:
  • Prime: Seal of Truth and ShoR to begin. CS is an OK 3rd prime but it's weak compared to the first two.
  • Major: Holy Wrath for stunning the EleDragoMentals. Avenger's Shield if you're OK with losing the bounce, but I'd skip it for levelling. LoH is decent for levelling, I suppose.
  • Minor: "Who cares? I'll be taking BoK & BoM.

Q: ?
A: .
Last edited by knaughty on Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:52 pm, edited 12 times in total.
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby knaughty » Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:47 am

Rotation:
CS is the single target Holy Power Generator. I don't care if HotR is better this microsecond, learn to tank properly.

Q: What's our new rotation?
A: We have two, one for Single target, one for AoE

Q: What's our single-target rotation?
A: 939 You hit CS every second GCD. That's the 3's slot. The "9s" slot goes:
  1. Judge
  2. Alternate AS/Holy Wrath
  3. Holy Power is at 3, hit ShoR

Q: What are our Holy Power generators?
A: We have two: One for Single target: Crusader Strike, one for AE, HotR

Q: Isn't HotR more single-target damage than CS?
A: Not really For some weird gear-sets with low hit/expertise and fast weapons, CS might be more than HotR, but I'm not sure it happens in practice. Even at it's worst, CS is still pretty damn close to HotR, and if you have a slow weapon or lots of hit/expertise, CS is already ahead. Issue gone at 85, so meanwhile, learn to tank properly so that when you hit 85 with proper tuning you're not the StupidTank who breaks CC non-stop and wipes the group on every difficult trash-pack. Clear?

Q: So I specced Grand Crusader, now what?
A: Replace Holy Wrath casts AS hits really hard, but it doesn't hit hard enough to compensate for GCD clashes and casting nothing at all at some later point. This means that the only thing you really want to use a GrC proc for is replacing a Holy Wrath - don't push back CS or ShoR. While you can push back Judge and get a short-term gain, you end up with dead GCDs later. If you're AE tanking, don't push back HotR, but otherwise just hit the AS button.

Q: What's our AoE rotation?
A: HotR, and whatever AE is off CD
A: Complicated when we get Inquisition at 81.
A: The best use of Grand Crusader procs...

Q: What seal do I use?
A: Truth. Unless you can afford to lose one sixth of your TPS, then you could do Insight for the heals.

Q: Huh? Explain single-target more?
A: Bad French Accent: Listen very carefully, I will say this only once!
It's like 969. Except CS replaces both "6" abilities. So your basic beat is CS-x-CS-x-CS-x. Thus: 939
Then we have some 9s, just like 969.
First one is Judgment - keep it on CD, it does a ton of stuff, including keeping your mana up.
Second one is ShoR - use it every time you have 3 Holy Power (glow runic thingy bar). You can use WoG instead if you don't care about threat but you're about to die (H-LK, H-Halion-P3).
So we're at: CS-Judge-CS-xx-CS-ShoR(WoG)
For the xx bit, alternate AS and Holy Wrath.
Don't mix up the order! This isn't 969. If you randomly hit shit that is off CD, you'll get clashes where you can't cast anything, and God kills a kitten.
Don't use Inquisition Single Target! You're doing it wrong.
Only replace HW with your GrC procs!

Q: So how to I pull something?
A: Like this:
  1. Hit Divine Plea, you just got 3 Holy Power
  2. (Optional) Hard-cast Exorcism
  3. Avenger's Shield (Glyphed with the AS Major if this is a single-target boss fight)
  4. (Optional) Judge (if you have time before mob gets to you - you should)
  5. ShoR - you just blew your 3 Holy Power and got a massive threat lead. If it missed, press it again.
  6. CS -> 939


Q: What do I do if ShoR misses?
A: Press it again.

Q: What do I do if Eternal Glory procs?
A: Press WoG again if you have 2/2 GbtL.

A: If not, hit ShoR

Q: Do I judge ahead of ShoR if I don't have a SD proc?
A: No. Also: Why are you reading the basic FAQ?

Q: Explain the AoE rotation properly?
A: HotR instead of CS, Consecration > HW > AS for 9s Blow your HoPo on WoG at 80 (or ShoR the current kill target, or something with really low threat on it).
A: Complicated at level 81+!
OK, the theoretical perfect AE TPS "burst" is (once you're at 81):
<have 3 HoPo>-Inquisition (Wings) - HotR - Cons - HotR - HW - HotR - Inq - HotR - AS - HotR - ........
At that point you're out of AE shit to cast. Make something up until HW & Consecrate are back off CD. Or use GrC procs if you specced it.

Q: 81+: What if I don't have 3 Holy Power?
A: (1) Bad planning on your part doesn't constitute and emergency on my part.
A: (2) Hit Divine Plea

tQ: Don't be a dick!
A: Fine..... just remember all this applies once you have Inquisition @ 81:
You're going to have to be adaptable. HotR is your basic AE move, but it doesn't hit real hard. You want to get Consecrate and Holy Wrath out, but Inquisition buffs their damage by 30%. Consecrate is also on a 30 sec CD with 10 sec duration - you want to maximise it. If you know you're going to be AE tanking, make sure you don't have AS glyphed - it gives you another multi-target move. Most AE tanking is short duration, so frontload HW and Consecrate, remembering that Consecrate is a DoT where HW is an instant - you need a full-duration Inquisition to get a max-damage Consecrate, but a short Inq can buff HW (or AS, or HotR).

Whatever you do, don't skip HotR - it's earning you the HoPo you need for the long Inquisition.

How you ramp up is going to depend on circumstances - largely "How stupid are your DPS" and "How fast does this pack need to die?". Remember Wings.


AE ramp-up issues are largely solved once they patch Shield of the Templar to give you 3 Holy Power when you press DP.
Last edited by knaughty on Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:27 am, edited 13 times in total.
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby knaughty » Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:47 am

Gearing to cheese level 80 content:

Is no longer relevant!

Gearing for the fresh 85 tank:

Will be provided later. Or hunt down the info yourself - it is out there.
Last edited by knaughty on Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:29 am, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby knaughty » Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:39 am

Links:
My Advanced FAQ is linked form my sig. Of course, it doesn't exist yet.

Doxa's 939 training video Obviously you don't click when you're really tanking, you use your key-binds. Clicking is good for demo purposes, however.

4.0.1 Mastery/reforging guide If you want the details of how to reforge you gear for raiding ICC/Halion at level 80, check out this thread.

Theck's 4.0 Talent & Glyph guide The Canonical Source for talent & glyph weighting.

Theck's MATLAB & pounding headaches post. Go here for a migraine.

Digren's 4.0.1 Item Enhancement Guide How to gem and enchant in 4.0.1 and beyond. I like Stamina > Strength for threat, but hey, he can disagree, it's his thread :D
Last edited by knaughty on Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:29 am, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:53 am

Should include Touched by the Light in the passive spec benefits - Stam, Spellpower, and spell hit.
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby Chicken » Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:49 pm

You appear to be missing the question to this answer:

Knaughty wrote:A: Yes, but I'm just going to talk about paladins from now on.
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby Phonic » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:00 pm

Hey, I just wrote a post on basic specs that I see for the start of 4.0. You can steal it if you want as your starting foundation if it's worthy enough. :D

Otherwise, excellent work as always.
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby knaughty » Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:24 am

Phonic wrote:Hey, I just wrote a post on basic specs that I see for the start of 4.0. You can steal it if you want as your starting foundation if it's worthy enough. :D

Err.. just posted mine without reading yours, will go check now.

-EDIT-

Read your OP, didn't check whole thread on assumption OP had been updated. Two issues:

(1) I'm more interested this week in the level 80 spec.
(2) Hallowed Ground and Grand Crusader are pathetic with current tuning. Skipped in all my builds.

At 85 you could take Arbiter of the Light over PoJ, but I can't think of a circumstance I'd do it personally.
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby d503 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:46 pm

Shouldn't you be omitting Inquisition from the AOE rotation since we don't get it 'til 81...if this is 80 focused at the moment, just might throw some people off...
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby knaughty » Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:55 pm

d503 wrote:Shouldn't you be omitting Inquisition from the AOE rotation since we don't get it 'til 81...if this is 80 focused at the moment, just might throw some people off...


Gottunddamerung! :oops: :oops: I forgot Inq was 81.

I'll fix it tonight.

-edit-

Fixed.
Last edited by knaughty on Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby d503 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:02 pm

You can't have that much sass in one post and be perfect ;)

Very entertaining (yet still informative) read...thanks for putting it together :)
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby Omegas » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:29 pm

I can't believe I have to read basic training again after almost 3 years...


BTW, thx and keep on that edit button!
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Re: 4.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics.

Postby knaughty » Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:00 pm

knaughty wrote:First two posts ready for feedback. Ignore the scaffolding on three through six.

Ready for general feedback. I'll fix "Inquisition is level 81" later today.

I'll whack up some starter links at some point, but it will pretty much be limited to a couple of the updated stickies, we're pretty early in the FAQ cycle.

I'll whack in link in "Links" to Towill-e-i-e-i-o's (spelling?) "ConsoleCrusader" YouTube account as a piece of general interest so people can see what 85 looks like.
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