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[10/25] Sindragosa

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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Shathus » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:13 am

For the record, I didn't do the solo tank until the 15% buff (that was also the first time we downed her) when the extra health and healing made it easier to do so. My original point was to just help the learning curve (maybe I defeated the purpose of that making the tank healing harder), but it was one less cog to worry about with everyone running around ice blocks, etc. Our kills have been between about 6:30-7 minutes so the stacks get to the low to mid 20s. (I took a 56k frost breath right at the end of our last kill when I forgot to get/use a cooldown).

Should probably start doing a swap going forward for practice.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby kovaras » Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:23 am

I know this is a bit late :), but here's something for those still having problem with this encounter. Good for the mount ach too. /cheers

http://raidbriefing.blogspot.com/
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:38 am

This is horrible positioning. Out in the field you can get bombs behind the line.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby kovaras » Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:53 am

Try it first... we have been using it for weeks without a single time of 'behind the line' bomb. And that's 2 x 25man grp running simultaneously.

If there are a few inexperience raiders in your raid... the path in the middle can assist explaining the running out direction. Positioning also maximised dps update during phase change.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:05 am

kovaras wrote:Try it first... we have been using it for weeks without a single time of 'behind the line' bomb. If there are a few inexperience raiders in your raid... the path in the middle can assist explaining the running out direction. Positioning also maximised dps update during phase change.


My mistake -- I didn't realize you were using the far end, which probably is functionally identical to the same deadzone on the stairs. Your positioning has the added benefit of slightly more ranged dps time. Good writeup on the abilities, assuming that's yours.

I don't think your ice block positioning will work well with heroic mode, where you have +1 iceblock with more hp, so iceblocks need to be grouped up in order to be able to break them all before asphyxiation. The typical way of handling blocks on heroic is to position in a 6 pack.

It also looks like you rotate her during p3, which I would think would make dealing with UM unnecessarily complex. It might make Buffet easier, on the flip side.

(For the record, we've killed Sindra 30 times, including a few-week raid hiatus. I detest this fight so we hadn't bothered started working on her in heroic until last night, when we hit 11% on the fourth pull.)
Last edited by fuzzygeek on Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby kovaras » Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:11 am

You are probably right with the 25hm, we haven't really tried it in the 25hm.. still at 8/12hm and i've moved to raid leading raid 2 now just to introduce the content to more players before cata. but it's working fine with 10hm and for the drake meta.

guild website -> www.lanun.guildlaunch.com

/cheers
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:25 am

The more I think about your rotation in p3 the more I'm liking it. I'll have to try it. I can see how it makes buffet easier on tanks.

I just think this is a deeply stupid fight, so I dislike making people suffer through it longer than necessary.

I still think I've seen bombs in your safe zone, but if you've never seen it happen, perhaps there's a proximity check on the stairs and outer lip.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby kovaras » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:19 pm

We have been using the air phase positioning for 11 weeks. Last night while leading a less exp grp, there was a 'behind the line bomb' when one of the player targeted for the frost tomb moved to far out. While most still able to adjust accordingly for the behind the line bomb, a few did take the hit but it was on normal 25, so there was no casualty. :)

On the kill attempt with that grp, the highest dps was only at 8.7k and only 5 players past 7.5k and 2 were below 4k (not including tanks).

I will look at the air phase positioning again. There's definitely a way to improve the strat efficiency there, probably something like illustrated below for 25hm. Will post an update. :)

(25hm)
Frost Beacon DBM Warning: Player 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

......3......4

1.....RAID....5

2.................6
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby kovaras » Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:49 am

Video for phase 3 added.

Low dps and inexperience raid, and first kill for 8-10ppl. Only 5 did more than 7.5k at the end of it and close to five were actually below 5k (not including the tanks).
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby fuzzygeek » Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:53 am

Hmm. From last night.

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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Belloc » Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:02 am

fuzzygeek wrote:Hmm. From last night.

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I've seen bombs hit behind where we drop blocks at the bottom of the stairs. Either side is still going to require raid awareness.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby fuzzygeek » Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:55 am

Belloc wrote:I've seen bombs hit behind where we drop blocks at the bottom of the stairs. Either side is still going to require raid awareness.


I've seen bombs right at the edge of the stairs many times, but never on the stairs themselves -- which is why I make the front-line blocks stand on the first step.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby inthedrops » Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:21 pm

I'm sure any bomb method that people are used to will work for them, heroic or not. It's mostly getting people to know what to do.

I remember when we were first learning heroic (and before DBM/DXE had all the fancy icon stuff built into it) it was quite a pain compared to having these tools today.

Our strat was literally:
1. Loosely clump up at the bottom of the stairs. Not the middle, not the top, but the bottom. And don't unchained magic all over people if you're ranged.
2. As soon as you're NOT targeted with an ice tomb, haul your ass towards the middle/top of the stairs.

(This leaves two groups. 6 monkeys that are about to fight with each other. And everyone else. Note that we had specific spots for ice tombs to be dropped. But remember there were no markers)

3. The remaining people (yes, all 6 of them) move quickly, without hesitation, and as deliberatly as you possibly can into one of the 6 tomb poins. The only advice given as to when to adjust was (A) If you're on the outside left or right, you move further out from the center people. The center people do NOT move once they have planted their feet. (B) If you're on the close edge (towards the raid group) you do NOT adjust for the further out edge. The further out edge need to move out if they're too close to the inner.

This worked about 75% of the time. Usually though, last second fidgiting caused some double blocking or blocks being really far apart, etc.

The raid marking ability has made this 100 times easier to do with consistency. Also, when they gave the ice tombs health bars that actually made those phases stupid easy. It used to be, you'd have to tab through and see if any ice blocks were aobut to die too soon. And the people in their blocks would monitor their own block and call out in vent if it was going to break too soon, etc. All that went way with the health bar addition.

Now all you have to do is memorize the order of the raid icons in order to know where to stand. Skull, X, Square, Moon, Diamond, Triangle.....for us "left to right" reading people it's easy:

Code: Select all
Sk X  Sq
M  D  T


One thing that was nice though is that once we did start using the raid icon stuff we were already good at making those quick life saving adjustments.

This is one of the only fights (besides LK) where it's possible to learn something about how well the tank plays. So I actually enjoy this fight. It's really easy as a tank to do something wrong here, even small things matter (well, they did at 0% and 5% anyway)
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Meloree » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:33 pm

inthedrops wrote:(This leaves two groups. 6 monkeys that are about to fight with each other. And everyone else. Note that we had specific spots for ice tombs to be dropped. But remember there were no markers)


My memory is hazy, but I'm almost positive that Blizzard implemented smoke flares before the ICC release. We were certainly using them for our progression kill of HM.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby fuzzygeek » Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:03 pm

Flares have been around since TBC, but DBM may not have had raid marking code when some people were first starting out working on Sindra, which are the marks Drops is referring to above, I think.

The thing with the pearl necklace approach to ice blocks in normal is that it teaches bad habits for heroic, when you'll need tighter groups.

And yes, DBM raid marks make this easy. I still have to yell at people who play the odds and run to the top of the stairs, instead of waiting at the bottom like they're supposed to, but that's human nature for you.
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