4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

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4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Phonic » Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:10 pm

With impending 4.0.1 around the corner. I thought I'd start a post on some of what I can see as "standard" builds forming. Of course we have had plenty of discussion in various threads about builds/specs, but I'm going to try and consolidate what I see coming out for 4.0.1, then 4.0.3, then raid progression, farm, etc.

*Everything subject to change when we run the final numbers and of course, preferences of the individual tankadin.

#1) Since threat has been the main topic as of late, I see this as the main threat spec:
http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#sbZGMhfRddoMucbh:zs0VqRMmc

-Includes Rule of Law as well as Arbiter of the Light
-Drops boths WOG talents
-Doesn't take utility talents like DG, POJ, or HOJ
-Glyphs are subject to change, but this one focuses on the CS (swap HOTR for AOE), Judgement, AS glyphs. Leaves SOT expertise on the table, we'll see have to see if that still beats Judgement glyph, especially with AotL

#2) A quality leveling/questing/soloing spec:
http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#scZRrhcRddRMucbM:zscVqwMmc

-Takes both WOG talents as well as PotI for as much self healing as can be
-No Hallowed Ground to make some room for POJ, but could be interchanged (or HOJ if you like a shorter stun handy)
-Glyphs both WOG prime/major, again, for minimizing downtime

#3) Our level 85 stats are gonna change a lot, especially with gear and reforging possibilites, but I see this spec for starting progression raiding:
http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#sZRrhfRddRRucbb:zsoVqRMmV

-Nice balance between the two specs above, with the WOG talents to help with healer mana
-Picks up DG for raid utility, but still no POJ/HOJ unless it would be needed for a particular encounter
-If threat is okay, I see dropping the 2 pts in RoL for the full points in Divinity, at least until things are on farm
-Glyphs focus on SoT for expertise, which is probably more important for raid bosses

#4) Magical fights (just to be thorough):
http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#sZRrhfRddRRufb:zsoVqMMmV

-Eye for an Eye is key
-Could lose 2 points in Imp Judgement (or Reckoning if total caster, ie. not dragon) for Divinity if boss damage is ridic high
-DP major glyph (no brainer)

Other thoughts:
-Some people will ALWAYS run with POJ. I tend to be one of them... but for progression fights, I might sacrifice that in one of my prot specs just to ensure I have the threat and survivability.

-In a similar vein, with the newly announced HOJ being off-GCD, it makes the Imp HOJ more attractive. Who knows if the Vindcation talent will give us another 10-20 seconds off the CD (to make it a 20-sec interrupt), but some people will want this "no matter what" for PVP, 5-mans, etc.

-Not sure what to make of Divinity overall. In WotLK it was condemed to pure overheal. Cata promises to change that story. I guess we'll ahve to wait for the numbers on this one. It could be as minimal as 1pt just to get us to the next tier, or mandatory 3pts because of it's effectiveness. But I would dislike spending 7 points in T1 talents, somehow that just feels wrong.

-I'm liking our glyphs more and more, even though some are just static damage or crit increases. We have a decent set of choices and I see myself changing them out quite a bit for different boss fights, kinda like what happens today on live, but with less hassle carrying 20 copies of each.

-WOG jury is still out IMO, but I'm hoping that there is some role for it in raids as once we have a solid threat lead, we can throw some WOGs out and get some healer mana savings or bubbles. Or better yet, have that come for free (30% of the time) and still get our SotR in :D
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Sinnegorth » Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:16 pm

Honestly I sorta wish Eye for an Eye was T1 prot so I wasn't forced to consider WoG. Nice write up - ty.
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Neptuno » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:03 pm

any reason for mana reduction glyph on CS? is the Judge mana regen just that bad?

of course i expect some feedback when 3s CS is active on PTR, but how Grand is Grand Crusader with so few holes now?
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Phonic » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:10 pm

Well they just bumped Judgement of the Wise up to 30%, so I think that's gonna help. But I saw some initial feedback that we can run low on mana if we consecrate and HW during on CD during our Single Target rotation. That might change now since we filled the GCD gaps, but CS @ 3sec is even more heavily used.

Either way, no other major is really "groundbreaking" that the CS mana reducer glyph can't be swapped out if we're doing alright. I'm sure in Raids and Heroics, mana won't be an issue. Leveling/Soloing was more the thought on that one.
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Dambrath » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:35 pm

Just an idea of 5 man whilst leveling spec.....

http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#sZGrhcRk ... :zs0VqRMmc

This is what I think I will be using for leveling at least when Cataclysm hits. Not Sure what to do with that last point but it doesn't seem to matter as this is a leveling spec and I wont be getting that last point until level 85 I guess.

*I plan on doing 5 mans to level with 4 other guildies to avoid the millions of people fighting for the quest mobs out in the wide world of Azeroth. I know it wont be the fastest way to level but it should be fun and get us guild exp at the same time.

*I put one point into Guarded by the light so that I will gain the Holy Shield when I use WoG, and points into Eternal Glory to try to save some Holy power when WoG is used.

*possibly take points out of GrCr and add to Hallowed Ground/Reckoning depending on the outcome of GrCr throerycrafting

*Not too sure about Divine Guardian for 5 mans but it couldn't hurt.

*In regards to glyphs, I think for threat generation and mana concerns these would be the most convenient choices particularly with CS being changed to 3second cooldown. Obviously swapping some round depending on whats needed/available from the AH if they havent been discovered by the scribes yet.
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Dantriges » Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:26 pm

Thought a bit about a spec like this:

http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#scZhrhcRddRMucbb:zs0VqRMmc

Reasoning: Atm our seals do diddly damage if the posts here about low seal damage are correct. 12% more diddly ist still nothing. Thenumber was 4% of our complete damage is seal damage. i assume people took the talent. So it´s probably 0,48% of our damage we lose if we don´t take it. So scratch SotP.
Seems that WoG is hot now if we get the talents for it. So I took Divinity and full PotI.

I could probably shift one point from PotI over to Rule of law or so. Not sure how much the last point in PotI matters or if we need the 5% crit.
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Prettysweet » Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:05 am

Divine Gaurdian is a no brainer
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Feanorion » Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:10 am

With a gapless rotation, is GrCr skippable? I have to think that it really is optional now, if it even survives to Live affecting AS.
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Flex » Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:21 am

Feanorion wrote:With a gapless rotation, is GrCr skippable? I have to think that it really is optional now, if it even survives to Live affecting AS.


Do you want to be running two prot builds with a focus on Single Target and one on AE tanking?
We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby seigert » Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:57 am

Flex wrote:Do you want to be running two prot builds with a focus on Single Target and one on AE tanking?


The question is: Do Feanorion want to make any talent build conclusions before we get any new actual data from PTR or beta?

For now, we even do not know, if this 3s cds for CS and HotR will pass internal testing and be pushed to public servers. Even more, we do not know, will GrCr be modified at all, modified in the same build, not modified.
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Lieris » Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:07 am

This is my build at least until level 85, after that we'll see: http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#sbhMZMZc ... :R0omRzzVm
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Lieris » Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:11 am

Bear druid spec: http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#0ZfMGcou ... :r0qz0wzMc

I just clicked on what looked good but this seems okay :P
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Dorrinal » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:06 am

With all the competing talents, especially Rule of Law, I am having a hard time justifying Pursuit of Justice. It might be time to go back to Tuskarr's Vitality.
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby steadypal » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:08 am

this is 4.01 talent thread why are ppl talking about lvling and rule of law and poj etc... heh
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Dorrinal » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:11 am

That's a good point; the content of this thread doesn't quite match the subject, does it? On the other hand, does your spec really matter when facerolling ICC with the new systems in place?
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