4.0 Item Enhancement Guide

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Re: 4.0 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby kaanman36 » Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:58 pm

Sabindeus wrote:Actually not quite. They also have 15% extra block from their Spec Benefits package. http://cata.wowhead.com/spell=29144


So they effectively have Holy Shield built in to their spec, but we have to spend resources to use it?
Last edited by kaanman36 on Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 4.0 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby Flex » Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:59 pm

Sabindeus wrote:
Digren wrote:Ahh I'd missed that. Thanks. So for block chance they have shield block and mastery and we have holy shield and better mastery. For block value they have crit block and we don't.


Actually not quite. They also have 15% extra block from their Spec Benefits package. http://cata.wowhead.com/spell=29144


I think it evens out that them with their stuff and us with ours + holy shield is the same. After that Mastery does stuff.
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Re: 4.0 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby Digren » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:22 pm

Sabindeus wrote:
Digren wrote:Ahh I'd missed that. Thanks. So for block chance they have shield block and mastery and we have holy shield and better mastery. For block value they have crit block and we don't.


Actually not quite. They also have 15% extra block from their Spec Benefits package. http://cata.wowhead.com/spell=29144


Ok I'm trying to get a handle on the overall differences. Edit in some responses to some of my original questions, so if this later posts don't make sense it's my fault.

Warrior

Warriors can critically block, doubling the block value percentage (i.e. 60% of the incoming hit is blocked, instead of just 30%).

Warriors gain a 15% passive block chance increase in their spec benefits package
http://cata.wowhead.com/spell=29144

Mastery for warriors provides another 10% block and crit block chance, and provides an additional 1.25% chance of each with each point of mastery. Total scaling in terms of absolute damage reduction per point of mastery is not as good as for a paladin.
https://spreadsheets1.google.com/oimg?k ... 0et56vzupx

Warriors have Shield Block which increases block chance by a large number (enough to block cap in any set of level 85 gear) and crit block chance by some amount, which effectively makes their mastery even less valuable as its contribution to block chance is meaningless while shield block is active. This is warrior's equivalent to divine protection.

Paladin

Paladins gain 15% passive block chance via holy shield when SotR or Inq have been used in the last 20 seconds.

Mastery for paladins provides x% block chance, and provides an additional y% chance with each point of mastery. Total scaling in terms of absolute damage reduction per point of mastery is better than for a warrior, up to the block cap.
https://spreadsheets0.google.com/oimg?k ... 66e163bjgz

Paladins also have divine protection, which stacks with blocking, making it better than warriors' shield block. Divine protection also works on magic damage while shield block does not.

Conclusions

As far as I can find paladins have no ability to adjust the percentage of damage mitigated during a regular block, while warriors can via crit block. However paladins have divine protection while warriors' equivalent is just Shield Block.

Warriors can intermittently block cap with ease via Shield Block. Paladins can permanently block cap more easily because of the improved mastery scaling. However, once block capped, mastery provides no benefit whatsover to a paladin, whereby a warrior could continue to increase crit block chance. Unless there's a crit block cap, then, theoretically at some point the value of mastery for warriors could surpass paladins.

A paladin caught off guard may lack a base 15% block chance provided by a recent SotR or Inq, whereas for a warrior their 15% chance is passive. Warriors can pre-emptively fire Shield Block outside of combat to boost their block chance to 100%. Paladins can use Inquistion outside of combat to gain the 15% block chance Holy Shield provides, assuming the paladin had some holy power to start. Otherwise some amount of ramp up time is required.
Last edited by Digren on Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 4.0 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:26 pm

When talking of Shield Block, remember that Warriors have no equivalent for Barkskin/Divine Protection/Bone Shield, and those all work for magical damage.
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Re: 4.0 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby kaanman36 » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:30 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:When talking of Shield Block, remember that Warriors have no equivalent for Barkskin/Divine Protection/Bone Shield, and those all work for magical damage.


Shield Wall?
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Re: 4.0 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby Flex » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:33 pm

kaanman36 wrote:
KysenMurrin wrote:When talking of Shield Block, remember that Warriors have no equivalent for Barkskin/Divine Protection/Bone Shield, and those all work for magical damage.


Shield Wall?


No.

Cooldowns are in a, pre-talent, 1/3/5 set up.

Shield Block/Barkskin/Divine Proection - 1 min minor cooldowns
Last Stand/Furious Regeneration/Ardent Defender - 3 minute mid range cooldowns, powerful but reactionary.
Shield Wall/Survival Instincts/GAnK - 5 minute major cooldowns pre-planned usage.

DKs have cooldowns that fight the above but also a few more smaller ones.
Last edited by Flex on Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 4.0 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:33 pm

Wrong (edit: kaanman, not flex). Shield Wall is the Icebound Fortitude/Survival Instincts/Guardian of Ancient Kings equivalent - ie, their major cooldown. Shield Block is their minor cooldown fitting the role of the ones I mentioned in my post above.
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Re: 4.0 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby twinkfist » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:36 pm

i have a question...the new shield spike...with the mastery talent. i just looked on mmo-champion and didn't seen anything that says how much damage it does when we block...but is that something we are going to look into as our mastery rating goes up?

i understand that armor will probably be the other consideration...but i'm thinking in situations where we are tanking trash or aoe is involved...is it something that's going to be a viable option for even aoe threat?

just popped into my head.
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Re: 4.0 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby kaanman36 » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:37 pm

right right, my bad.
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Re: 4.0 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:40 pm

Elementium Shield Spike is 90-133 damage on the tooltip. I'm not sure firstly if it scales with anything, or secondly if there's a higher rank spike.
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Re: 4.0 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby twinkfist » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:55 pm

i guess that's what's we are going to have to wait for next. someone to get the sheild spike and see if it's even worth considering. i mean, if it does scale...and if there are threat issues on aoe damage...i mean, if it's casters...yeah, not that effective...but if there is melee damage...then it could definitely help with threat.
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Re: 4.0 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:58 pm

Digging through Wowhead: shield spike has a 5 second cooldown.
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Re: 4.0 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby twinkfist » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:00 pm

sonofabitch.
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Re: 4.0 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby Sabindeus » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:15 pm

So To Summarize the differences:

Warriors have 25% passive block, and gain 1.25% block (also crit block) per Mastery Skill
Paladins have 16% passive block, 15% active block (Holy Shield) and gain 2% block per Mastery Skill.

The Warrior 1min CD (Shield Block) invalidates the benefits listed above while active, strictly devaluing Mastery to an extra 1.25% crit block per Mastery Skill, while simultaneously increasing the chance that a critical block will occur by providing more proc chances. This scales inversely with their other avoidance levels (because dodges and parries will push blocks off the table while SB is up).

And no, Digren, you can't use Inquisition or ShotR with 0 HoPo.
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Re: 4.0 Item Enhancement Guide

Postby Rizu » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:28 pm

I <3 you Digren. Amazing as always.
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