Remove Advertisements

Defining Christianity

Invisusira's playground

Moderators: Aergis, Invisusira

Re: Defining Christianity

Postby Chunes » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:20 am

Nikachelle wrote:!!!! How was the wedding?


It was amazing.

We're still waiting on the professional photography to get finished and we have yet to DL all our own pics from the camera, but I'm still gonna make a wedding thread and post some of the highlights.

I'll probably toss up our own pics from the honeymoon first since the professional photographer's work is still like 2 weeks out.
User avatar
Chunes
 
Posts: 2271
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 3:46 pm

Re: Defining Christianity

Postby Nikachelle » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:22 am

Awesome. Congrats. :D
User avatar
Nikachelle
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 11000
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:39 am
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Defining Christianity

Postby Boyfriend » Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:18 pm

Passionario wrote:stuff


You seem to misunderstand what Occam's Razor is, Occam's Razor is the principle that: "the simplest explanation is usually the correct one" this is similar to my initial statement that probability itself is evidence against anything objects non-existence, in the sense that unless there is evidence FOR something's existence it is more likely to not exist than it is to exist.

There is no magical threshold that you seem to speak of, and I don't believe I have mentioned one. We in practice live our lives as if very unlikely things don't happen, and we use words like 'can't happen' and 'impossible' to describe those things. But this has nothing to do with Occam's Razor.

I responded strongly to Theck's assertion that we can't make any statement about the existence of imaginary things, because it is flat out wrong. We can: "It is unlikely" so unlikely in fact that in practice we will refer to it as "inexistent". This is how every single person in this world uses the English language, independently of that however we can still say it's unlikely (extremely much so) so we can make a statement.

Again: Occam's Razor is what says something is unlikely if there is no proof for it's existence, Imprecise English Language is what makes extremely unlikely things non-existent.
Image
User avatar
Boyfriend
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 588
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:16 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Defining Christianity

Postby gtechman » Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:31 am

How do you apply that concept to something that can have no "simple" explanation though?
gtechman
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:29 pm

Re: Defining Christianity

Postby Boyfriend » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:16 am

gtechman wrote:How do you apply that concept to something that can have no "simple" explanation though?


Everything can have a simple explanation compared to a different more complex explanation.
Image
User avatar
Boyfriend
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 588
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:16 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Defining Christianity

Postby gtechman » Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:29 pm

Boyfriend wrote:
gtechman wrote:How do you apply that concept to something that can have no "simple" explanation though?


Everything can have a simple explanation compared to a different more complex explanation.


So give me your "simple" explanation of the origin of the universe.
gtechman
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:29 pm

Re: Defining Christianity

Postby Fridmarr » Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:35 pm

gtechman wrote:
Boyfriend wrote:
gtechman wrote:How do you apply that concept to something that can have no "simple" explanation though?


Everything can have a simple explanation compared to a different more complex explanation.


So give me your "simple" explanation of the origin of the universe.

I think what he is saying is that Occam's Razor has no requirement for something to be simple, only that given multiple choices the simplest among them is the likeliest. Being slightly simpler than incredibly, mind blowingly, complex would still the simpler solution even if it still incredibly complex.

That said, with this type of scenario, "simpler" is pretty subjective and requires a belief in an of itself, so there is some level of contradiction there.
Fridmarr
Global Mod
 
Posts: 9665
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am

Re: Defining Christianity

Postby Fivelives » Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:11 pm

"Supermassive black hole goes critical and explodes. Bang - universe starts."

The big bang, explained in 10 words or less.
- I'm not Jesus, but I can turn water into Kool-Aid.
- A Sergeant in motion outranks an officer who doesn't know what the hell is going on.
- A demolitions specialist at a flat run outranks everybody.
User avatar
Fivelives
 
Posts: 3106
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:55 pm

Re: Defining Christianity

Postby Punkss2 » Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:35 pm

Fivelives wrote:"Supermassive black hole goes critical and explodes. Bang - universe starts."

The big bang, explained in 10 words or less.

I personally prefer this big bang theory myself:

God spoke, and BANG, universe created.
Thinking of starting WOW again....
User avatar
Punkss2
 
Posts: 427
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:55 pm
Location: The Space Olympics

Re: Defining Christianity

Postby Chicken » Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:18 am

Punkss2 wrote:
Fivelives wrote:"Supermassive black hole goes critical and explodes. Bang - universe starts."

The big bang, explained in 10 words or less.

I personally prefer this big bang theory myself:

God spoke, and BANG, universe created.
I'd say the problem with both of those is that they still lack a part of the explanation. They explain the start of the universe, but then the next question to ask is "Where did <pick either explanation above> come from?"
Image
User avatar
Chicken
 
Posts: 1597
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Defining Christianity

Postby Dantriges » Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:12 am

Chunes wrote:Funny story, my very religious mother has on not a few occasions told me that my wife is a better christian than most the christians she knows. My wife is not christian, but she just lives a good life, is kind and selfless etc.

tl;dr: walk your walk, ignore the talk.


I think most religions can be broken down to "Lead a good life." At least in my personal opinion God doesn´t demand more than that. The rest are later human additions or attempts to go into further detail what´s exactly meant or to explain something people had no explanation for but asked anyways.

I felt that trying to lead a good life is more satisfying to me. I fail probably often enough but I try. Not because God said so, but well I have to live with myself and my conscience for the rest of my life. If there is a door to the afterlife after death or a big nothing doesn´t matter much. I am either right and entering something I can´t explain anyways or wrong and being dead and nonexistant I won´t care anyways if I am wrong and God is nonexistant.
Dantriges
 
Posts: 1252
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:39 am

Re: Defining Christianity

Postby Boyfriend » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:03 am

Chicken wrote:I'd say the problem with both of those is that they still lack a part of the explanation. They explain the start of the universe, but then the next question to ask is "Where did <pick either explanation above> come from?"


This.

An explanation of the the origin of the universe would have to include everything that led to it. If you're going with big bang then what caused it and how did whatever was there before get into existance, the idea of a expanding and recollapsing universe was attractive because of this as it would be recursive, but there's significant evidence against it. If you're going with the idea of God then you'd have to explain how God works, why he did it and where his powers come from. But I am on a tangent, the original reason why I brought all of this up is a pet peeve of mine that there is no difference between agnostics and atheists, and I throw fit everytime both is an option on a religion checkbox.
Image
User avatar
Boyfriend
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 588
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:16 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Defining Christianity

Postby theckhd » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:12 am

I was going to post a disagreement with your pet peeve, but then I went and read the Wikipedia definitions of the two. It's a little more complicated than I had thought. I always assumed "atheist" implied a direct dismissal and "agnostic" was more a statement of 'there could be, we just don't know the details.' But it looks like the definition centers agnosticism more on the ability to prove or disprove, which means it spans the space between atheism and religion.

Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—is unknown or unknowable.[1] Agnosticism can be defined in various ways, and is sometimes used to indicate doubt or a skeptical approach to questions. In some senses, agnosticism is a stance about the similarities or differences between belief and knowledge, rather than about any specific claim or belief.

...
Demographic research services normally list agnostics in the same category as atheists and/or non-religious people.[4] Some sources use agnostic in the sense of noncommittal.[5] Agnosticism often overlaps with other belief systems. Agnostic theists identify themselves both as agnostics and as followers of particular religions, viewing agnosticism as a framework for thinking about the nature of belief and their relation to revealed truths. Some nonreligious people, such as author Philip Pullman, identify as both agnostic and atheist.[6]


I guess given that definition, I'd be an Agnostic Deist? But your statement that agnosticism and atheism are the same thing wouldn't describe me then. You're essentially saying that all agnostics are "agnostic atheists."
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 7710
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: Defining Christianity

Postby Boyfriend » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:58 am

To me if you don't believe in the existance of any kind of god, you're an atheist.
If you believe in some kind of higher power, but not in any defined religious way, then you're a deist. (IIRC deism is mostly about a God that created the universe but has not interacted with it since but I'd have to look it up)

Agnostic to me just means "I'm insecure in my beliefs" (that sounds worse than I mean it), a deist can certainly be agnostic aswell, as can a christian.
It's just to me a very wishy-washy expression, that can apply to almost anyone (I guess except for suicide bombers most people have some amount of skepticism in their beliefs) and in the process has very little meaning.

The amount of atheists that are not agnostic is absolutely miniscule (they can prove a negative?) yet if both are an option to check then I can either make a statement about being unsure (which is extremely meaningless) or about not believing (and implying I can prove a negative).

I just think having agnosticism as a choice in a religion selection, implies that somehow you can't be sceptical without having an opinion.
Image
User avatar
Boyfriend
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 588
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:16 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Defining Christianity

Postby Brekkie » Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:27 pm

It's just to me a very wishy-washy expression, that can apply to almost anyone (I guess except for suicide bombers most people have some amount of skepticism in their beliefs) and in the process has very little meaning.

I'd like to second this.

There are very few topics where it is unacceptable to have an opinion but still be open to further data and to the possibility of potentially being wrong. Having this big grey area term is just a cop-out that people try to use to distance themselves when they make the mistake of viewing either deists or atheists or both to be 100% inherently fanatical in their conviction, which is simply not true for most reasonable people.
Theckhd wrote:big numbers are the in-game way of expressing that Brekkie's penis is huge.
Brekkie
 
Posts: 953
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:44 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Arkham Asylum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest