Devil

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Re: Devil

Postby Shoju » Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:35 am

ulushnar wrote:
Shoju wrote:Pulp Fiction was a mediocre story with pretty interesting editing, this made many people think he was a genius and look at Kill Bill like it was some amazing pair of films, when in actuality they were very mediocre.


Excuse me, but that's like saying "the Mona Lisa is just a woman sitting there not doing anything, it's only Da Vinci's technique that makes it interesting and memorable." In short, it misses the point. It's the memorable dialogue that folks are still quoting almost twenty years later, the way he weaves the stories into each other, the sheer flair and style of his direction and the density of homages and allusions he makes in his work.


Actually most of what people talk about the Mona Lisa is the amazing use of artistic concepts inside of a very well done painting. The painting is a marvel of both sight and technicality. When you look at how the painting is discussed, it is the techniques that Da Vinci used in creating the masterpiece that are talked about just as much as the aesthetics of the painting.

Pulp Fiction's allure lies in its editing. Sure, there is witty dialogue to be found. I can go watch Snakes on a Plane and find witty dialogue, or The Expendables, or Plan 9 from Outer Space. For me, The editing was fantastic. I will even give you that the dialogue could be considered very good. But the story itself was more about the shock factor of things than it was a good story. In every 'segment' there is a shocking situation. Once you get past that, there isn't much to the story. I'm sorry. I don't like it, and I don't like Tarantino.

If you are curious about what I do like
Directors:
Christopher Nolan
Alex Proyas
Dave McKean
Martin Scorsese

Movies that I like but no attachement to director
American History X
Cube
Equalibrium
The Shawshank Redemption

These are my style of directors and films.
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Re: Devil

Postby ulushnar » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:02 am

Once again, you miss the point. You're confusing the "subject" (a woman sitting down, a series of lurid crime stories) with the techniques used to realise that. Yes there was cheap shock involved each story, the clue was in the name of the film, fercrissakes!

I'm not a big Tarantino fan, but I know whenever I watch a movie of his, I'll be entertained. And that's because of the density of information on offer, because of the snappy dialogue and because of the fun, if often two-dimensional characterization. Essentially what I see Tarantino doing to maligned film genres (crime, exploitation, revenge, martial arts) is deconstructing them in the same way as Frank Miller and Alan Moore did with superhero comics in the mid-80s.

From the list* you've mentioned, I only really have experience of two: Nolan and Scorsese, and I find it difficult to comment on the latter because I essentially grew up in a post-Scorsese world. Much the same way it took me a long time to get into Led Zeppelin because every hard rock band from the 70s onward ripped them off wholesale, I see Scorsese's DNA stamped across every good film I've watched in the last decade.

As for Nolan, well much as I've enjoyed his films, I find them austere and the dialogue often stiff (especially in his Batman films). He seems to be very much of the school of "tell, don't show" whereby the characters explain their motivations in mini-essays rather than letting their actions talk for them. The closest I've seen to real, human characters in his work is The Prestige.

Anyway, we're a long way from Shama-lama-ding-dong, eh?

*FWIW, I would like to see The Shawshank Redemption stricken from all comparative movie discussions. It's like trying to have a discussion about bands and someone mentions the Beatles.
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Re: Devil

Postby Shoju » Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:17 am

ulushnar wrote:Once again, you miss the point. You're confusing the "subject" (a woman sitting down, a series of lurid crime stories) with the techniques used to realise that. Yes there was cheap shock involved each story, the clue was in the name of the film, fercrissakes!

I'm not missing it or confusing it. I'm talking about both. There wasn't much substance to it, it was all technique, as where something like the Mona Lisa was rich in both substance AND technique. I was pointing out that your analogy was ill conceived because of this.

I'm not a big Tarantino fan, but I know whenever I watch a movie of his, I'll be entertained. And that's because of the density of information on offer, because of the snappy dialogue and because of the fun, if often two-dimensional characterization. Essentially what I see Tarantino doing to maligned film genres (crime, exploitation, revenge, martial arts) is deconstructing them in the same way as Frank Miller and Alan Moore did with superhero comics in the mid-80s.


Well, Then you are entertained. I'm not. I walked away from Pulp Fiction, and the only thing that stuck with me was the technique, and S.L.J.'s rant 5 minutes into the movie. I'm a huge fan of action, crime, and revenge movies. I don't see him as achieving what Miller and Moore did, but that is just me.

From the list* you've mentioned, I only really have experience of two: Nolan and Scorsese, and I find it difficult to comment on the latter because I essentially grew up in a post-Scorsese world. Much the same way it took me a long time to get into Led Zeppelin because every hard rock band from the 70s onward ripped them off wholesale, I see Scorsese's DNA stamped across every good film I've watched in the last decade.

As for Nolan, well much as I've enjoyed his films, I find them austere and the dialogue often stiff (especially in his Batman films). He seems to be very much of the school of "tell, don't show" whereby the characters explain their motivations in mini-essays rather than letting their actions talk for them. The closest I've seen to real, human characters in his work is The Prestige.

Anyway, we're a long way from Shama-lama-ding-dong, eh?

Indeed we are a long way. One last thing. I too, am not old enough to have seen many of Scorcese's masterpieces when they were new and fresh, but as a child, I was taught to appreciate something for what it is, and for how it was created, which is probably why I look at things like Pulp Fiction, and respect the technical aspect of thigns, but find the 'what it is, or substance' to be lacking.

*FWIW, I would like to see The Shawshank Redemption stricken from all comparative movie discussions. It's like trying to have a discussion about bands and someone mentions the Beatles.


even more completely off topic, personal babble.
Haha. I have a personal attachment to the movie that probably no one else on this board does. I live in the town where tha majority of the film was shot, and my grandfather retired from the reformatory used in the shooting. I look at the film, and say: "Man, I wish E&B Market didn't go under (the store where Brooks and Red worked). Man, that is really amazing how they edited out the other prison in the overhead scenes of the prison. Man, how did they keep people out of downtown so they could film that part Hey! That is so and so that I went to school with as an extra. They had a day where they brought back the retirees from the reformatory, and they could bring a guest. My grandfather brought me. I got to see the set, me Morgan Freeman and Tim Robbins, and even eat at a local dinner with them.

That movie is actually a very large part of my teenage years. There was so much of this town in that movie, and being able to see many things first hand was incredible. The premiere of the movie that was held here locally brought the town to a standstill for days.
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Re: Devil

Postby Flex » Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:36 am

Shoju wrote:Alex Proyas


The I, Robot and Knowing guy? What's he getting good mileage from?

I will say that Ultraviolet, the only other film by the director of Equilibrium, is as much fun to watch.
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Re: Devil

Postby Shoju » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:50 am

Flex wrote:
Shoju wrote:Alex Proyas


The I, Robot and Knowing guy? What's he getting good mileage from?

I will say that Ultraviolet, the only other film by the director of Equilibrium, is as much fun to watch.


The Crow. - The original. love or hate the many direct to dvd sequels, the original was amazing. It revolutionized the way movie soundtracks were done, and was a great movie. I might be biased as I was in high school when the flick came out, but it is definitely up there on my list of great movies.
Dark City. - Fantastic movie. This movie doesn't get much attention because it flopped in the box office, but it was truly great.
Garage Days. Not as high on my list as the other two, but still a quality film.

And he is doing the upcoming movie Paradise Lost, which I hope is a return to his stylized approach he had in the crow and dark city. I Robot was a 'mediocre' movie I will give you that, and I haven't seen knowing. I didn't realize it was Proyas until after it had come out on DVD.
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Re: Devil

Postby ulushnar » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:51 am

Shoju wrote:The Crow. - The original. love or hate the many direct to dvd sequels, the original was amazing. It revolutionized the way movie soundtracks were done, and was a great movie.


Yes, sadly. Following that, every movie aimed at the 15-25 bracket had to have a tie-in soundtrack album which was stuffed to the gills with b-sides and covers from whatever rock bands were cool at that point. And in the place of actual scores that fit the scenes, you'd have these songs shoehorned in to sell the album.

Revolutionary indeed.
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Re: Devil

Postby Shoju » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:18 am

ulushnar wrote:
Shoju wrote:The Crow. - The original. love or hate the many direct to dvd sequels, the original was amazing. It revolutionized the way movie soundtracks were done, and was a great movie.


Yes, sadly. Following that, every movie aimed at the 15-25 bracket had to have a tie-in soundtrack album which was stuffed to the gills with b-sides and covers from whatever rock bands were cool at that point. And in the place of actual scores that fit the scenes, you'd have these songs shoehorned in to sell the album.

Revolutionary indeed.



Did you feel that the soundtrack to the Crow was out of place at all in the movie? I can't think of any point during the movie where the soundtrack was glaringly ajar compared to the rest of the movie.

While I will agree that since then, there have been times where the soundtrack style was abused to a point where it hindered a movie, the Crow soundtrack fit very well with the movie.
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Re: Devil

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:16 am

Spooky in the context of this thread:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/29/movie ... .html?_r=1

Also sad, my condolences to any fans/friends/family out there.
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Re: Devil

Postby Shoju » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:22 am

Holy Crap...
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Re: Devil

Postby aranil » Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:25 pm

So...is Devil any good? I don't think that's actually been mentioned, and I'm curious
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Re: Devil

Postby Punkss2 » Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:29 am

Disturbing Behavior, dont know why, but i love it. And the soundtrack in this movie was phenominal IMO

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0134619/
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Re: Devil

Postby Nikachelle » Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:31 am

aranil wrote:So...is Devil any good? I don't think that's actually been mentioned, and I'm curious

Invis and I quite liked it.

Wasn't really any twist ending though. More like an "Oooooooooh".
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Re: Devil

Postby cerwillis » Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:42 am

As far as soundtracks go, I think "Judgement Night" may have snuck in before "The Crow", where the soundtrack was current tunes that eclipsed the movie's reception. I remember this as a turning point for soundtracks when I was younger. Loved the songs, hated the movie, same as The Crow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment_N ... ndtrack%29
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Re: Devil

Postby Shoju » Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:34 pm

It probably does in terms of release dates (Judgement Night) but, the Crow was delayed for a while after the accidental shooting death of the Lead Role on set. I'm unsure what the original timetable for release was, but I know filming took another 2 and a half months due to the complications of Lee's Death.

Man... now you have me wanting to watch that flick again.

My best friend saw Devil and said it was an ok flick, suitable for the price of a ticket around here.
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Re: Devil

Postby Angelarc6570 » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:26 am

Lets see if I can't get myself thrown out of Maintankadin.

I actually really liked LitW and couldn't sit through the first part of Pulp Fiction. I don't plan to see Devil, but with Netflix, my girlfriend and I hardly ever run out to see movies anymore anyway.

As such, BRB reading plot ^.^

*EDIT* yeah, I'll pass.
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