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When to apply SoR

SPOILERS Discussion about the Cataclysm Beta SPOILERS

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Sabindeus, PsiVen

Re: When to apply SoR

Postby Sinnegorth » Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:55 am

Sabindeus wrote:I found in this build since they gave us the CS buff, CS hits a little bit harder than HotR on a single target.


Ah they fixed it eh?
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Re: When to apply SoR

Postby theckhd » Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:05 pm

Pfife wrote:
Chicken wrote:Holy Wrath isn't Holy Power based, but it does have an unusual mechanic. The damage it does in total is the same regardless of how many targets you hit. So going by Arcand's number of 2688 damage above, it'd do 2688 damage per target when hitting one mob, 1344 damage per target when hitting two mobs, 896 damage per target when hitting three mobs, etc. basically divide the damage you'd do one target by the amount of mobs hit.


Actually I think it was also discovered that the added damage from spellpower was added to every mob hit. So while the base damage is spread over all targets, the bonus damage is applied to each mob individually. So as long as we have good scaling coefficients it should do some good damage.


Do you have a source for that anywhere? I'd love to see the test results for that - if it's true I'll need to code it differently in the MATLAB simulations.
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Re: When to apply SoR

Postby Rasmfrackn » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:19 pm

Bah, stupid fat fingers on the backspace... let's see...

On the beta, I'm level 85 attacking level 80 and 70 dummies (can't get 3 dummies of the same level in range in Stormwind, but the damage is the same on both levels). I have 3339 AP (1552 str), and 1026 SP.

1 dummy: 3017 damage
2 dummies: 1662 damage each
3 dummies: 1210 damage each

So, I do slightly more total damage as # of targets increases. Someone else posted this a few weeks ago, and it seems to have a spellpower-based scaling after the base damage is split. (Confirmed, adding BoMight only changes my values by 1).

Basically, it follows the formula:

base / targets + coefficient * spellpower

This gives me a base value (at 85) of 2710, and a coefficient of right around 0.30 x spellpower. (Technically 0.29922, without following significant digits.) Using my 1 target and 2 target damage values to find those numbers allows me to predict the 3 target damage (1210) so that seems sound.

-- I lied, I can get 5 dummies at once in a certain spot. It's 850 damage, which also follows that formula.
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Re: When to apply SoR

Postby theckhd » Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:16 pm

Thank you very much!
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Re: When to apply SoR

Postby Feanorion » Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:01 pm

Rasmfrackn wrote:Bah, stupid fat fingers on the backspace... let's see...

On the beta, I'm level 85 attacking level 80 and 70 dummies (can't get 3 dummies of the same level in range in Stormwind, but the damage is the same on both levels). I have 3339 AP (1552 str), and 1026 SP.

1 dummy: 3017 damage
2 dummies: 1662 damage each
3 dummies: 1210 damage each

So, I do slightly more total damage as # of targets increases. Someone else posted this a few weeks ago, and it seems to have a spellpower-based scaling after the base damage is split. (Confirmed, adding BoMight only changes my values by 1).

Basically, it follows the formula:

base / targets + coefficient * spellpower

This gives me a base value (at 85) of 2710, and a coefficient of right around 0.30 x spellpower. (Technically 0.29922, without following significant digits.) Using my 1 target and 2 target damage values to find those numbers allows me to predict the 3 target damage (1210) so that seems sound.

-- I lied, I can get 5 dummies at once in a certain spot. It's 850 damage, which also follows that formula.


Oh lord--- AoE Paladin tanking seeing a return of the spellpower sword? :shock: :evil:
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Re: When to apply SoR

Postby Noradin » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:26 am

Feanorion wrote:
Rasmfrackn wrote:Bah, stupid fat fingers on the backspace... let's see...

On the beta, I'm level 85 attacking level 80 and 70 dummies (can't get 3 dummies of the same level in range in Stormwind, but the damage is the same on both levels). I have 3339 AP (1552 str), and 1026 SP.

1 dummy: 3017 damage
2 dummies: 1662 damage each
3 dummies: 1210 damage each

So, I do slightly more total damage as # of targets increases. Someone else posted this a few weeks ago, and it seems to have a spellpower-based scaling after the base damage is split. (Confirmed, adding BoMight only changes my values by 1).

Basically, it follows the formula:

base / targets + coefficient * spellpower

This gives me a base value (at 85) of 2710, and a coefficient of right around 0.30 x spellpower. (Technically 0.29922, without following significant digits.) Using my 1 target and 2 target damage values to find those numbers allows me to predict the 3 target damage (1210) so that seems sound.

-- I lied, I can get 5 dummies at once in a certain spot. It's 850 damage, which also follows that formula.


Oh lord--- AoE Paladin tanking seeing a return of the spellpower sword? :shock: :evil:


Not necessarily, but it makes it not scale with vengeance at all.
I predict a need for readjusting our threat each tier if they don't introduce a interaction of vengeance and our spellpower talent.

Edit: Make that a "spelldamage talent" as it doesn't affect healing anyway and thus doesn't really give what is know as "spellpower".
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Re: When to apply SoR

Postby Arcand » Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:31 am

Confirmed that Flex was right - the direct damage from Hammer is 100-ish and the explosion that hits everybody is around 1000. Crusader Strike hits for 450-ish. Those numbers are with my test spec which doesn't have any damage boosting talents.

A 3-point Word of Glory heals me for 5851.
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Re: When to apply SoR

Postby theckhd » Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:35 am

Noradin wrote:Not necessarily, but it makes it not scale with vengeance at all.
I predict a need for readjusting our threat each tier if they don't introduce a interaction of vengeance and our spellpower talent.

Edit: Make that a "spelldamage talent" as it doesn't affect healing anyway and thus doesn't really give what is know as "spellpower".


The total damage of Holy Wrath still scales with AP. The AP bonus just doesn't increase as the number of mobs increases.

In all likelihood, this is a bug anyhow. I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Last edited by theckhd on Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: When to apply SoR

Postby Arcand » Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:47 am

theckhd wrote:The total damage of Holy Wrath still scales with AP. The AP bonus just doesn't increase as the number of mobs increases.


How sure are you about that? My notes (got 'em in my hand right now) from the target dummy show me Wrath-ing for 2687-2688 whether I have Blessing of Might on myself or not.

Just tried on the PTR, Forgotten Depths Underking. 2687 and 2688 with Might on, then took Might off and got a crit for 4070 which would have been 2713 pre-crit...
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Re: When to apply SoR

Postby theckhd » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:05 am

Oops, you're right. It doesn't scale with AP at all.
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Re: When to apply SoR

Postby Sinnegorth » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:55 am

Great, just when I am thinking to one HoPo initial application of SotR is okay I realize that because of our initial suck threat issues its not. Sheesh blizz!
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