Cataclysm Paladin Tanking Videos 4.0

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Re: Cataclysm Paladin Tanking Videos 4.0

Postby towelliee » Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:43 am

Taeron wrote:1) In general, how would you describe the new paladin tanking? Is it fun, like it was intended, or is it frustrating? Somewhere in between?


I am honestly having a great time tanking. At first you are a little overwhelmed with what you have to remember to do while tanking. I am going to answer your questions based of my Beta experience.

Grand Crusader right off the bat is my favorite talent. Avenger Shield is my favorite ability so it's win win! GC seems to proc a lot making the damage you produce in 5 man instances off the charts. Single target tanking is a breeeze. I mean is it as easy as 969 and having 2 macros? No, but it is more fun because you are not just mindlessly hitting everything hoping for the best. It's like AS > judge for your procs > cs > hope GC goes off if not > HW > CS > Consecrate > CS > BBAM SOTR and just seeing your sotr hit for like 26k sometimes 30k just brings a slight giggle to my face.

AOE tanking on Beta WITH Inquisition makes tanking multiple mobs easy. Also have to think about Holy Shield and keeping that up as well. Now is AOE tanking more FUN then WOTLK? No of course not cause in WOTLK you AS > hammer and LOL at all of the mobs.

All in all what's different for me is I have more freedom to choose what I want to do in certain situations. 9696 turned a lot of paladins into drones. I already see some paladins on my realm playing their Warrior and DK alts to get them Cataclysm ready and it saddens me.

Threat on PTR is a bit shaky for Multi-target but not even close for single. The 3 Holy Power + sotr is just too damn strong for you to get caught up to.

SO scale of 1 to 10

Fun Factor 8
Frustrating - 4 (until you hit 81) then its like a 2
Overall - 7

Taeron wrote:2) How are we dealing with stray mobs now? I know that on current Live, both my taunts are almost always on cooldown and ready, but with damage removed from the single taunt, is that even working (considering DPS usually just looks at an enemy and that enemy then has eleven DoTs ticking on him)?


You can see in my Vortex Pinnacle Trash video A mob gets away from me and then again gets away from me. The DPS on Hand of Reckoning was always nice and it takes me a bit to remember it doesn't do damage heh. With stray mobs I am trying my best to just single target taunt them and then either Judgement if available OR Holy Wrath if it is up. Holy Wrath so far has been a great snap aggro tool for me for mobs that get away. You also don't have to worry about tab hammering to get certain mobs since hammer hits everything in 8 yard radius now.

Taeron wrote:3) How do you deal with a Lady Deathwhisper add situation, say, if 3 adds come running into the raid with about 20 yard space between then? Judge one, AS another and just autoattack the closest? Or are there other tools we can rely on when the basic 2 ranged are on CD?


I actually did a guild ICC 10 on PTR earlier before raid since we were all bored. We did up to Lootship. What I did for the left side adds is I AS the left Fanatic > Taunt + Judged the right fanatic > they came close I Consecrated > HW > hotr > and then after that kept hammering and hw'ing and hitting AS either off CD or when GC procs.

Basically besides AS and Taunt Judge you can use HW or RD taunt to get the third one close THEN HW since it has a bit of range on it.

Taeron wrote:4) Are EG and GbtL talents at all considered at this point? Every lvl80 build I've made preparing for 4.0.1, I've left both of them out, seeing how we can't spare HoPo for WoG at all. I figured in order to at least do some good at lvl80 until Cata, perhaps leaving EG and GbtL out and going for some extra range on Judgement would be a better idea?


So far on Beta I have left out EG but not Gbtl since Gbtl is helping me a lot in soloing elites in Uldum. But for raiding spec I do not see myself using that and if I did it would be toward the end of the fight when I have exhausted myself in getting a huge threat lead and then maybe stacking 3 Charges and getting some nice Absorption going on toward the end of the fight where sometimes it gets a little crazy.

Taeron wrote:5) Not a question but more of a concern - in a tank group of a warrior and a druid, will I, as a paladin, be the one who'll have to offer the raid (at lvl80 and at lvl85) the sort of "I did my best tanking", meaning, I can do everything properly but when aggro is lost or stray adds kill dps/healers because I have nothing to use, all I can say is "I did my best", while other tanks can remain as proper as we were up until now?


No absolutely not. In most raids you already know where most of the adds and packs are. It is all about experience and execution and fitting that into your style of tanking. Honestly the only DPS I can see pulling off of us are pugs in heroics who can't keep it in their pants and want to test your patience. In a raiding or guild environment I am sure your peers will use the tools they have to also help you.

From looking at AOE tanking and trash we have more in our arsenal in Cata then we do in WOTLK. Just being able to utilize HW and AS on a shorter CD and having Hotr hit everything in 8 yard range is enough to make me drool.
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Re: Cataclysm Paladin Tanking Videos 4.0

Postby towelliee » Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:52 am

I am excited! Time to record some heroics!

Blues said:

Heroics are now available.

Furthermore, the Pre-made Character Templates should provide you guys with characters in level 333 Superior (blue) quality gear - which is the minimum expected gear level for succeeding in heroics. I strongly encourage you to copy over a new pre-made if you want to test heroics.

Available character copies should also be reset.

*We're looking in to the issue of not being able to use dungeon finder. You should be able to form up a group the old-fashioned way and walk into a heroic.
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Re: Cataclysm Paladin Tanking Videos 4.0

Postby Taeron » Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:46 am

Excellent. Thank you both for the answers (looking forward to perhaps other tankadins offering their perspective). I had a chaos in my mind when I tried to think about all the changes and putting them in order and I started worrying that with all the complaints and the analytic posts on Beta Class forums, Paladin tanks were in a really really bad shape. I do hope tuning the numbers before 4.0.1 goes live will only makes us better.

By the way, how are we managing mana? If I remember right, the permanent Divine Plea glyph is gone and there's no more Sanctuary buff? Nobody speaks of mana problems so I suppose I missed our new source of replenishment...

Thanks again.
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Re: Cataclysm Paladin Tanking Videos 4.0

Postby Chicken » Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:50 am

We gain mana through Judgement casts now, and Sanctuary is now a passive effect when talented into instead of a buff you need to cast. Both of those together are fine for mana.
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Re: Cataclysm Paladin Tanking Videos 4.0

Postby Nikachelle » Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:55 am

Taeron wrote:P.S.
I'm not a native English speaker so a side question: when I type Judgement, every word checker underlines it as wrong, yet this is how it's written in WoW. Correct spelling would apparently be Judgment. Is this another case of American vs British English or did Blizz make a typo?

"Proper" English says it's to be spelled "judgment". I don't think American English realizes that.
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Re: Cataclysm Paladin Tanking Videos 4.0

Postby theckhd » Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:05 am

Nikachelle wrote:"Proper" English says it's to be spelled "judgment". I don't think American English realizes that.


Um...

# judgement vs judgment: judgement is preferred in British English (except in the sense of a judge's decision, in which case "judgment" is preferred), judgment in American English.


And...

ODO wrote:In British English the normal spelling in general contexts is judgement. However , the spelling judgment is conventional in legal contexts, and in North American English


American English appreciates your concern, but thinks that perhaps you should take this one up with the Brits.
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Re: Cataclysm Paladin Tanking Videos 4.0

Postby towelliee » Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:08 am

Mert wrote:Yeah thanks for posting them - I have no intention whatsoever of getting involved in any of the debate but, like we discussed, I do have a request. If possible and if you get time, could you put together a video of you tanking a level 80 raid boss on the PTR? I honestly don't mind which instance or which boss (well, I guess Flame Leviathan won't be too useful :P) but it'd be nice to see firstly how our rotation performs over a longer duration and also to see the kind of damage you're taking during boss specials and that kind of thing.

As I say, only if you have the time to do so but it'd be appreciated - thanks :)

EDIT: Oh and if you are able to, a parse to go along with the video would be absolutely wonderful but, again, only if you have the time to do so.


I couldn't get a group on the PTR for the life of me so I got on Beta did a run of Vortex Pinnacle. Last Boss had 2.58 Million HP which isn't bad for single target tanking rotation reference. Enjoy! Also sorry I didn't see your parse statement until after I recorded :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YympCmoSXsU -- Cataclysm Paladin Tanking Beta 4.0 - Vortex Pinnacle Trash (Just 5 minutes of a few pulls)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92onL324DAY -- Cataclysm Paladin Tanking Beta 4.0 - Vortex Pinnacle - Asaad Boss (Good Single Target Tanking Reference)
Last edited by towelliee on Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cataclysm Paladin Tanking Videos 4.0

Postby Nikachelle » Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:08 am

Right. I'm going to blame my dad for that one. Because I asked him once and that was his answer.

(He's also a lawyer, so suddenly this makes a lot more sense. >.< )
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Re: Cataclysm Paladin Tanking Videos 4.0

Postby theckhd » Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:38 am

That life grip was pretty cool.

Are you tracking SD at all? I noticed that you (at least on a few occasions) prioritized J over SotR, but if SD is up you'd want to reverse the order.

For example, between 1:00 and 1:10, you have a buff that looks like the old Judgement of Justice icon, it gets refreshed when you cast Judgement, and disappears when you cast SotR. I'm assuming this was SD? In that case, you'd have been better off switching the order to take advantage of the existing SD proc.

This is also part of the reason that I expect J and ShoR will get prioritized over AS. Even though AS hits hard, 50% is a very high proc chance.

<edit> In fact, I'd be curious to see what happened if you focused on the rotation more. It's hard to tell without a parse, but there were a few cases where you seemed to delay CS for something else (example: 2:30 the boss drops down, you AS->Judge->CS instead of the reverse, even though he's in melee range at the time you AS).

I'd really be interested to see you try this priority:
Judgement if HP=3 and CS cooldown is > 1.5s and Sacred Duty isn't up
ShoR if HP=3
Crusader Strike
Judgement
Avenger's Shield
Holy Wrath
Cons

That's basically ShoR>CS>Jud>AS>HW>Cons, but with one caveat. When you get your third HP, use Judgement>ShoR if SD is not up, and ShoR>Jud if you already have the Sacred Duty buff.
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Re: Cataclysm Paladin Tanking Videos 4.0

Postby Jonlo » Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:22 am

I noticed you still use HoR on bosses that aren't targetting you, out of habit for damage that doesn't exist. (When the beta boss flew up you would taunt him)
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Re: Cataclysm Paladin Tanking Videos 4.0

Postby towelliee » Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:20 am

Jonlo wrote:I noticed you still use HoR on bosses that aren't targetting you, out of habit for damage that doesn't exist. (When the beta boss flew up you would taunt him)



Yeah HoR is not in my rotation but the habit from using in WOTLK keeps ticking in :/

Also Theck when you have a chance I'd like to talk to you on AIM about the rotation. Busy at the moment though wiping on Heroic Deadmines /kicks a cat
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Re: Cataclysm Paladin Tanking Videos 4.0

Postby theckhd » Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:23 am

I usually don't log on AIM at work, but I'll try to be around this afternoon. I'm pretty busy though, so I may not be very communicative until this evening.

If nothing else, I can hop on AIM or Vent tonight (in 6 or 7 hours).
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Re: Cataclysm Paladin Tanking Videos 4.0

Postby alsache » Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:37 am

Please comment in the Beta threads on your dungeons too. It looks like the only Tankadin commentary they're getting so far is from Psiven, but several from warrior & druid tanks perspective.
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Re: Cataclysm Paladin Tanking Videos 4.0

Postby towelliee » Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:51 am

theckhd wrote:I usually don't log on AIM at work, but I'll try to be around this afternoon. I'm pretty busy though, so I may not be very communicative until this evening.

If nothing else, I can hop on AIM or Vent tonight (in 6 or 7 hours).


Sounds good if it is before 9 your time.
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Re: Cataclysm Paladin Tanking Videos 4.0

Postby towelliee » Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:08 am

Coming up in about 2-3 hours is my experience from trash to first boss in Dead Mines. Heroic DM is definitely difficult as people have been reporting:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... id=2000#17

I died about 4-5 times in just the first room of trash. About 8 overall Wipes. Video is going to show all the deathly goodness. Stay Tuned!
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