Remove Advertisements

Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, theckhd

Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:26 pm

I should have a "calc_abilitydmg" module finished later today or early tomorrow. I'd like to get someone on the PTR and/or beta to do some testing in order to see whether the values seem accurate. If there are no volunteers, I'll take this request to the Cata/PTR threads and ask around.

I'd need the gear, talent spec, and buffs you used. It would be nice if you gave me your AP and SP as well so that I could check the code for consistency there as well. Uploading a log of a dummy test run should be fine, I just need the average damage of a "normal" hit for each ability. In fact, a dummy would be preferable given that you won't have Vengeance effects to worry about.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 7718
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Arcand » Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:19 pm

I should be able to do that this evening.
Arcand
Moderator
 
Posts: 4525
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:15 am

Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:27 pm

Teaser numbers:


Code: Select all
Spell     Raw    Net    Thr
ShoR    14386  13773  35452
CS       2743   2867   7380
JoT      4785   5082  13081
AS       3105   3297   8486
HW       2824   3262   8396
HoW      3329   4509  11606
Exor     2875   2909   7488
SoT       376    409   1053
SoR       338    338    870
SoJ       154    154    396
Cens     7957   8310  21390
Cons     2898   3065   7889
HotR      797    763   1964
HaNova    944    955   2458
Melee    1319   1198   3084


The "raw" should be for a non-crit, "net" is after avoidance and crit is taken into effect, and "threat" is just "net" times our threat modifier. Note that all of these values will vary slightly from gear set to gear set. The talent spec used is this. The simulation is assuming full raid buffs and full boss debuffs.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 7718
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Arcand » Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:24 pm

Attacks performed on a Grandmaster's (level 80) training dummy. I was watching for other debuffs to appear on my target and would ignore a value if something damage-affecting occurred even close to it. My talent build gave me Hammer and Shield but contained no talents for increasing the damage of anything. None of my glyphs were damage-affecting. This test is from the PTR as it was on Sep 20, 2010 (talking to posterity for a second).

The first data set is naked except for normal Neverending Winter (needed it to do AS/SotR) and a grey Hatchet (7.4dps, 2.50 speed, no stats).
Middle data set is my T9/early ICC/Frost gear, weapon was Shiver (178.9 DPS, 1.60 speed).
Third data set is the same as the middle except I put Blessing of Might on myself.

Format is xxx (yyy-zzz), x is the average, y is lowest hit observed, z is highest hit observed. Crits weren't counted but I did fast-head-math-check them for consistency. Consecration ticks can crit, I don't know if that's news. I didn't see any correlation between Hammer's direct and splash damage so I think the splash is a separate random amount.

Sample sizes were generally six. Some were three, for things with little variability like Judgement. For Crusader Strike I went to 11 samples; for Avenger's Shield I did ten. Middle gear set melee was based on 10 samples, third set melee based on 7 because I crashed at that point. More data pending.

Code: Select all
                              682AP/226SP             2890AP/889SP           3179AP/889SP
Melee, no seal                NOT TESTED YET          361 (333-392)          404 (358-447)
Avenger's Shield              3167 (2961-3334)        4188 (3999-4407)       4384 (4169-4543)
Judgement of Truth, 0 stk     146 (146-147)           601 (601-602)          642 (641-642)
Judgement of Truth, 5 stk     219 (219-220)           902 (902-902)          963 (963-963)
Censure, 1 stk                20 (20-20)              84 (84-84)             91 (91-91)
Censure, 5 stk                100 (100-100)           419 (419-420)          455 (454-455)
Hammer, splash                716 (651-845)           1010 (956-1075)        1011 (923-1076)
Hammer, direct                26 (25-27)              120 (110-131)          119 (112-125)
Crusader Strike               83 (81-86)              482 (412-522)          505 (463-544)
Shield, 3 holy power          824 (824-824)           3474 (3474-3474)       3821 (3821-3821)
Holy Wrath                    808 (808-808)           2688 (2687-2688)       2688 (2688-2688)
Consecration                  97 (97-97)              175 (175-175)          183 (183-183)


I can reproduce this gear and I've still got the testing spec in case anything else comes up. I still have the raw data from this if you want to check it.

(Does Seal of Truthgeance still 'burst' when it procs on a 5-stack? If so, I forgot that number until just now.)
Last edited by Arcand on Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:25 am, edited 4 times in total.
Arcand
Moderator
 
Posts: 4525
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:15 am

Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby trellian » Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:16 am

Just out of curiosity, shouldn't you consider melee as an ability aswell?
User avatar
trellian
 
Posts: 671
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:02 am
Location: Silvermoon, EU

Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Arcand » Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:53 am

trellian wrote:Just out of curiosity, shouldn't you consider melee as an ability aswell?


I assumed its mechanics were unchanged and well understood, but I can get some numbers for it easily enough I guess.
Arcand
Moderator
 
Posts: 4525
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:15 am

Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:15 am

Thanks Arcand, I'll try and do some consistency checking with those today.

If you get a chance, I'm curious to know what damage ranges the in-game tooltips give for the abilities that aren't weapon-damage based.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 7718
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Flex » Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:31 am

Arcand wrote:
trellian wrote:Just out of curiosity, shouldn't you consider melee as an ability aswell?


I assumed its mechanics were unchanged and well understood, but I can get some numbers for it easily enough I guess.


It'll confirm the 100% weapon damage CS and weapon damage portion of SoT at minimum.
We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.
User avatar
Flex
 
Posts: 7500
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:29 am

Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Arcand » Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:40 am

Flex - fair enough, I'll get some numbers.

Just tried to log into the PTR and crashed to desktop; going to reboot now and see if that was luck or skill.
Arcand
Moderator
 
Posts: 4525
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:15 am

Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Chicken » Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:49 am

Arcand wrote:Flex - fair enough, I'll get some numbers.

Just tried to log into the PTR and crashed to desktop; going to reboot now and see if that was luck or skill.
If it keeps happening, go to your PTR installation and remove the contents of the Cache and Data\Cache folders.
Image
User avatar
Chicken
 
Posts: 1597
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Arcand » Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:55 am

Thanks, I may have to try that. Just got in, was in long enough to get 34 swings at a dummy and then CTD again.
Arcand
Moderator
 
Posts: 4525
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:15 am

Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby tlitp » Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:59 am

Interested in seeing several data sets on the topic of avoidance DR, conveying both 80ptr and 85beta.
- pure dodge (i.e. no buffs, no gear with agility)
- pure agility (no buffs, no gear with dodge)
- parry
Only character panel info is needed at this time.

EDIT : also include a set of data conveying base values. No buffs, naked, untalented. Fetch base stats (mention race) and base dodge.
Last edited by tlitp on Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
tlitp
 
Posts: 556
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:25 pm

Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Arcand » Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:02 am

Avenger's Shield tooltip has no numbers in it yet.
Ditto Judgement.
HotR says (paraphrase) Hammer the current target for 31% weapon damage, causing a burst of light which hits all enemies within 8 yards for 973 holy damage. (Biggest splash I observed was 125...)
Shield says 20%/60%/120% of AP.
Holy Wrath says 2260 divided among the targets.
CS tooltip has no numbers.
Last edited by Arcand on Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Arcand
Moderator
 
Posts: 4525
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:15 am

Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:31 am

Interesting data here. First of all, it looks like SoT scales with Censure as expected - roughly linearly, probably 3.2% per stack from 0 to 16%.

The interesting part is the damage of the on-swing portion. It's considerably higher than expected. With SotP, one would expect:

weapon_swing*0.16*1.15 = weapon_swing*0.184

Instead, Towelliee's parses show closer to 30% swing damage. My guess at this point is that SotP is additive instead of multiplicative, i.e.

weapon_swing*(0.16+0.15) = weapon_swing*0.31

To test this, I need someone to parse a dummy for me. Untalented, and then with 1 to 3 points in SotP. No other talents, gear is mostly irrelevant as long as it doesn't generate procs, no buffs.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 7718
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Arcand » Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:34 am

And you need big enough samples that a 5% difference isn't lost in the noise, I guess. Ok, will do.

Edit: Just did some vigorous failing with the combat logs - think I have a plan now but had to go respec and now I'm waiting for my hearthstone to cool off.
Arcand
Moderator
 
Posts: 4525
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:15 am

PreviousNext

Return to Advanced Theorycraft and Calculations

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest