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Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

SPOILERS Discussion about the Cataclysm Beta SPOILERS

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Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Rokh » Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:02 pm

Personaly, imo, if I wanted to heal myself while tanking (outside of passive judgements ofc) i woulda rolled a DK.

I have yet to put GbtL in any of my builds, and have not really played with it much at all honestly.

Is anyone feeling this is of any use, compared to other places to put those point? like filling out reck for instance.
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Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby PsiVen » Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:26 pm

This is the talent that buffs WoG now, right? I think I took it once because I thought it would be useful for soloing, but it's so pitifully ineffective that I never used it. I'm not sure if it's still in my beta spec.
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Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Chicken » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:13 am

Threat's a bit of a problem right now going by all reports I've seen, so currently no one has any Holy Power to spare on Word of Glory.
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Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Candiru » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:28 am

A much better talent would be one which procs to make your next WoG free and count as 3 HP strength. Then we would actually push it. If the proc has a suitably long/unlimited duration then we could either use it on CD, or sit on the proc for an emergency.

As it stands, its not much use.

Maybe a stacking buff which gains 1 stack for every HolyPower spent. When it hits 6, you have a Free WoG cast at +75% healing. Something like that would be worthwhile.
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Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Rasmfrackn » Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:52 am

Would it? Maybe... I mean, I don't know how I'm going to scale up in lv 85 epics, in terms of Str vs. Stam, but in 264 epics my Str->SP conversion is such that GbtL gives me a whole 3k healing on a full 3-HoPo WoG. That's an 8k heal that I'm trading threat and holy shield for, when I have about 60k hitpoints. I don't think Rune Tap is that weak, and the new warrior Blood Craze is probably worth more healing per time as a passive than our maximum WoG healing. It seems like for the cost the talent needs to jack it up by +150% or so.

Maybe if it also made WoG proc holy shield, so we weren't basically losing as much health as we're gaining by using it.
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Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby mclem » Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:56 am

They've said a number of times that the numbers still need a pass or two to get them up to speed; I wouldn't be *too* surprised if this was one of them, and WoG is intended to be a rather more effective heal than it is currently for us (Or, possibly, the other tanks' self-healing is meant to be weaker than it currently is).

I wouldn't mind hearing some blue feedback on the intent involved in this to give us some idea of what they're aiming for, and in turn whether there's some tweaking on the cards prior to release.
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Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:16 am

Rasmfrackn wrote:Would it? Maybe... I mean, I don't know how I'm going to scale up in lv 85 epics, in terms of Str vs. Stam, but in 264 epics my Str->SP conversion is such that GbtL gives me a whole 3k healing on a full 3-HoPo WoG. That's an 8k heal that I'm trading threat and holy shield for, when I have about 60k hitpoints. I don't think Rune Tap is that weak, and the new warrior Blood Craze is probably worth more healing per time as a passive than our maximum WoG healing. It seems like for the cost the talent needs to jack it up by +150% or so.

Maybe if it also made WoG proc holy shield, so we weren't basically losing as much health as we're gaining by using it.


Because Holy Shield works at full strength/duration on a 1 HoPo ShotR/Inq, using WoG is not a loss of Holy Shield.
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Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Ocin » Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:47 am

I've never liked healing myself on my DK, so I don't see myself enjoying this too much. I find on my DK that when I need to heal myself it's usually at a big loss to threat, especially on multi-mobs as I stare at the GCD or wait for enough rune power to come up so I can use it. I guess if it works differently than Rune Tap it may be ok, but I won't be grabbing it. This seems like fluff to me.
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Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Rasmfrackn » Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:48 am

Ok... I guess if you're doing a strict rotation of 1CP SotR/Inq and 3CP WoG that's fine for holy shield, but there's no flexibility there at all, and you can't put the heals where you want them. That's already 18 of the 20 seconds of holy shield if you're doing that as early as you can.

I guess the problem then is that we're getting HoPo at what, 1/3 the rate of the other two specs? There's no leeway in barely keeping up HS and using WoG to any real effect.
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Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Arcand » Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:50 am

Rasmfrackn wrote:I guess the problem then is that we're getting HoPo at what, 1/3 the rate of the other two specs? There's no leeway in barely keeping up HS and using WoG to any real effect.


They might be laboring under some delusion that, with less dangerous boss hits, we won't try to maintain 100% HS uptime. :)

I can only see that happening if we're absolutely unable to hold aggro and maintain HS at the same time, which
sounds like a bit of tuning so precarious I wouldn't dare attempt it.
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Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:56 am

Rasmfrackn wrote:Ok... I guess if you're doing a strict rotation of 1CP SotR/Inq and 3CP WoG that's fine for holy shield, but there's no flexibility there at all, and you can't put the heals where you want them. That's already 18 of the 20 seconds of holy shield if you're doing that as early as you can.

I guess the problem then is that we're getting HoPo at what, 1/3 the rate of the other two specs? There's no leeway in barely keeping up HS and using WoG to any real effect.


Yeah, as I have said many times, my biggest problem with Prot right now is the lack of a 2nd HoPo generator.

It would be interesting if HotR were not linked with CS, but that goes against their "don't AoE all the time" motto.
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Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Rasmfrackn » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:10 am

Nevermind AS, Holy Meteor, and Consecrate all fitting into our single-target attacks, right? :) I'm also very curious to see how they tune CS to actually be stronger single-target than HotR without messing up Ret. I guess with high-end weapons CS will scale faster, but I'm still getting a lot more single-target damage out of HotR.
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Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby theckhd » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:22 am

Rasmfrackn wrote:Nevermind AS, Holy Meteor, and Consecrate all fitting into our single-target attacks, right? :) I'm also very curious to see how they tune CS to actually be stronger single-target than HotR without messing up Ret. I guess with high-end weapons CS will scale faster, but I'm still getting a lot more single-target damage out of HotR.


Well, at least according to the spell descriptions Crusader Strike is supposed to be 100% weapon damage and HotR is supposed to be 30% weapon damage. So CS should be hitting harder single-target. My guess is that either CS isn't properly doing 100% (unlikely, but easily testable), or HotR is still coded at 300% from previous iterations of the skill.

And yes, our single-target rotation is still fairly full of AoE. Even with AS, Holy Wrath, and Consecrate, we still have some empty GCDs. Until/unless they give us some sort of single-target filler spell, I don't see any of that changing.
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Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Flex » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:24 am

theckhd wrote:Well, at least according to the spell descriptions Crusader Strike is supposed to be 100% weapon damage and [url=http://cata.wowhead.com/spell=53595] is supposed to be 30% weapon damage. So CS should be hitting harder single-target. My guess is that either CS isn't properly doing 100% (unlikely, but easily testable), or HotR is still coded at 300% from previous iterations of the skill.


The extra Holy Damage on HotR hits the primary target so it does a fair bit more damage with fast weapons.
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Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby theckhd » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:31 am

Flex wrote:The extra Holy Damage on HotR hits the primary target so it does a fair bit more damage with fast weapons.

Wasn't there a blue post somewhere saying that was unintentional though? I might be misremembering.

Either way, it would be a simple fix. Instead of hitting the primary target for 30% and having a baseline amount for the splash damage, just remove the primary target part and have it hit everyone in the AoE for 30% weapon damage. Numbers subject to tweaking of course - with this situation you could boost it to 60% or 75% to balance our AoE effectiveness without having to worry about eclipsing CS.
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