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Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

SPOILERS Discussion about the Cataclysm Beta SPOILERS

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Sabindeus, PsiVen

Re: Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

Postby lythac » Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:50 am

Tanks will pass on gear with either crit or haste.
Melee DPS will pass on gear with dodge or parry.

Looks to be fair.

All that exp/hit + mastery gear I upgrade from my prot set gets re-gemmed/re-enchanted and goes nicely to my Ret OS. Any prot gear I upgrade that has dodge/parry can get reforged and be used as a stop gap piece for my Ret OS for the beginning of Cata.
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Re: Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

Postby Malthrax » Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:58 am

In terms of out-of-guild random LFD 5-mans:

If its an upgrade for you, click need
If not, click greed/DE

/ignore anyone who starts any loot-related QQ.
Thank everyone at the end for a smooth run, even if you have to lie.
Leave group, queue for the next one.



I've "lost tank upgrades to DPSers" about as frequently as I've "lost DPS upgrades to tanks/healers". I learned to trick myself into believing that the item I lost the roll for never dropped in the first place.
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Re: Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:00 pm

Yeah I really don't see the problem. Oh no, Mastery and Hit and Expertise are useful to multiple specs. That's a good thing, not a bad thing. It means that they can make gear that is useful to more people, minimizing the chances that drops get wasted because no one in the group can use it.
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Re: Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

Postby ulushnar » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:09 pm

Sabindeus wrote:Yeah I really don't see the problem. Oh no, Mastery and Hit and Expertise are useful to multiple specs. That's a good thing, not a bad thing. It means that they can make gear that is useful to more people, minimizing the chances that drops get wasted because no one in the group can use it.


This, this, twelvety-thousand times this!

With Mastery they suddenly have a way to make a piece that appeals to Plate DPS and Tanks, this doth not suck.

As for bitching about people rolling on stuff, colour me bored. I've seen that going all the way back to classic and it boils down to one simple truth: sometimes, people are dicks. Is this new information to people?
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Re: Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

Postby Loras » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:15 pm

My point is NOT that a certain spec/class doesn't deserve the gear. My point is that I expect lots of pug drama to happen over those items. And pugging, whether we like it or not, is a major part of the game. And drama = unpleasant experience = something you'd prefer wasn't there in the first place. So I just hope there won't be too many pieces itemized like that, so that pointless crappy arguments can be avoided.

With the same argument ("you will roll, he will roll, so what?"), you can justify every single person in the instance rolling on that Scorpion trinket, be it tank, dpser or healer. So what? Nothing, someone won it. Result? 3 possible other (melee) people got disappointed, because a healer rolled on it and won it. If that seems "normal", then I think we're getting involved in a pointless argument.

And again I'll repeat, I don't mind that people will roll on hit+mastery gear just like I would - it's an upgrade for either of us, and a justified upgrade (not like the str/sta/def/dodge/hit items being needed by dpsers just because of 5 str more) that have the right to need on. I'm just saying that I can feel the QQ that'll come from 90% of the pugs who are too used to the stereotype "tank gear = def/dodge gear"


Aye, we all know people are dicks. And dicks have been present since day 1. Just the less situations available for dicks to show their dick-ism, the better for the game.
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Re: Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:16 pm

I think the negative impact on the game from people winning gear over others is drastically less than the negative impact from having gear drop that no one can use.
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Re: Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:24 pm

And you may ask yourself
Am I right? Am I wrong?
And you may say to yourself
My God, what have I done?
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Re: Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

Postby Paxen » Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:04 pm

Flex wrote:A similar thing will happen for healers and cloth as well I'd imagine.


Will happen? Healers have been rolling for crit/haste pieces against DPS for the entire WotLK expac.
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Re: Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

Postby Holyblaze » Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:06 pm

Only act from a position of being right or act not at all. haha BAM!
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Re: Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

Postby Neziah » Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:07 pm

Speaking of gear replacement.... ><

L81-ish Green quest reward in Hyjal...This is pretty typical of quest reward being semi equal to my 264ish gear set on my pally. I also just noticed my shield enchant is now dodge. :lol:

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Re: Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:25 pm

Interesting to see that both defense and block rating were converted for straight dodge on the neverending winter.
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Re: Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

Postby mavfin » Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:49 pm

Sabindeus wrote:Yeah I really don't see the problem. Oh no, Mastery and Hit and Expertise are useful to multiple specs. That's a good thing, not a bad thing. It means that they can make gear that is useful to more people, minimizing the chances that drops get wasted because no one in the group can use it.


Yeah, when it comes to random groups, I'll be happy to see stuff multiple specs can use. In fact, I like it. Now, if I see str/stam/exp/crit gear when I'm tanking, I won't feel a bit guilty about rolling on it if it's an upgrade, and I won't bitch at the DPS dude when he rolls on the str/stam/dodge/mastery stuff, because each piece really only has one stat that isn't optimal for me or him.

I think people will have to get used to the new way in randoms, I think. If you want to 'reserve' stuff, better do it in a guild/friends run if you have that option. Besides, if you end up with it, and you think maybe someone else deserves it, you can trade it. No issue. :D
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Re: Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

Postby Chicken » Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:03 am

Klaudandus wrote:Interesting to see that both defense and block rating were converted for straight dodge on the neverending winter.
In general they converted everything to two primary stats (Strength/Agility/Intellect and Stam), and two secondary stats (Various ratings and spirit), so it's not too surprising. Tanking gear that had just defense had it converted to one of the two existing avoidance stats on the item, while tanking gear that had defense and block had both converted to one new stat on the item.
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Re: Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

Postby Archeth » Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:31 am

Paxen wrote:
Flex wrote:A similar thing will happen for healers and cloth as well I'd imagine.


Will happen? Healers have been rolling for crit/haste pieces against DPS for the entire WotLK expac.

That is very much based on the current game design though. With (tank) deaths happening within 1-2 GCDs and near unlimited mana, you want haste to reduce the GCD and get your casted spells as close to 1 second cast time as possible. Crit is not reliable (but might be more useful if it happens when most of it isn't overhealing), and eg. holy paladins want it for the mana returns, not really because of the increased healing amount, but it's taken because the alternative (mp5 or spirit) is either unavailable with haste (paladin gear) or mostly undesirable most of the time.

If the mana situation is going to be as dire as some people in beta claim, healers might just want throughput by regen (more mana for the inefficient heals) and mastery though. At least if Blizzard continues along the line of what they already implemented for healers, haste (and to a lesser degree, crit) will not be popular healer stats - at least not for a while.
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Re: Tanking Rotation in Cataclysm

Postby Kelaan » Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:06 am

Arianne wrote:It depends on if you think that the BC way was better than the WotLK way....

I'm not sure which I preferred more. I liked having hard heroics, but I also liked not having to farm heroics in order to raid (because having 3 raid tanks take 22 other people through heroics is sorta painful).


I like heroics which are hard early on, and then later become amusing diversions, so that it's less of a chore to run them.

I liked that having quests/blues done was somewhat of an idiot filter, early on, for heroics. If you had done your homework, you were usually decent. Unfortunately, that meant that all the idiots were largely sequestered in the easier heroics and other dungeons, which meant that being a latecomer was PAINFUL.

I hate having to key/attune/quest+bluefarm+epicfarm my alts. Wrath's ease of gearing basically encouraged me to have more than one toon. Gearing a toon to be a viable alt in near-progression content becomes a 24-40 hour ordeal rather than much, much more in TBC. The reputation and keying requirements, though, are most annoying: I'd rather they were per-account, or had an optional BoA token you could send your alts if keys were considered important.

I'd love to be able to walk into Cataclysm dungeons with a mix of ICC gear and some quested and crafted stuff and have it be viable; as a tank that's less likely, but as DPS I wouldn't mind it. Overall, I rather liked the Wrath method better than the TBC one, though early on the TBC method wasn't too bad. It just didn't scale well (IMO) with late-levelers or re-rollers.
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