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Guys don't worry

SPOILERS Discussion about the Cataclysm Beta SPOILERS

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Re: Guys don't worry

Postby Noradin » Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:14 am

Mutley wrote:
Rasmfrackn wrote:
Mutley wrote:"quote="Leuthas""I don't understand where this "mob glue" stereotype came from."/quote"

It comes from tbc, it really was glue back then.

Except it wasn't, actually. What WAS glue was SA mana regen causing threat. When you've got a bunch of healers throwing a bunch of heals on a single person getting threat from being healed, it works surprisingly well. It was so subtle that it just seemed like it was all consecrate. It was the Nefarian demo spam of TBC.


Except it was. SA only give half the mana restored as threat, and it was split amongst all targets. Consecration scaled with spell damage so with halfway decent gear cons did far more tps then sa mana gains as your int hardly went up along the tiers.


Cons+JoL+SA = massive AoE threat, but since Cons was the only one with an animation out of these everyone thought it was the one to produce all the threat, exspecially since Cons and SA were almost always effective at the same time (You need to get hit for SA (-> mobs on you for SA, most likely in melee range which is most likely in Cons range, you need SA to spam Cons).
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Re: Guys don't worry

Postby knaughty » Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:52 am

TBC Consecration was glue - everything else was gravy. My recollection is that once you were in Tier-6 gear, Consecrate TPS > DPS TPS, on it's own, vs AE - it was what? 1k TPS at level 70? I recall it ticking for over 300 back in Sunwell?

Drop Consecrate on a MH pack, go AFK.

SA and JoL were small change in TBC.

Now, JoL until when.. 3.1? 3.2? in Wrath, zomg, that was OP. 'Twas like, double threat - I forget the full horror, but it was pretty fucking ridiculous - full Holy multiplier and a couple of other things that were added.

Remember - you're healing the entire raid, you've got RF up, and you're getting the "tank" multiplier. And there was at least one other major thing in there that got nerfed at some point, forget the details.

I used to have problems in Naxx-25 on fights with lots of raid damage if I was on OT duty, bug JoLing boss - I'd peel the boss off the main tank with JoL threat alone...
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Re: Guys don't worry

Postby Loras » Sat Sep 04, 2010 7:00 am

Patchwerk + Melees having to stand in the green pool all the time + JoL = PURE SEX!!!!1!1!!
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Re: Guys don't worry

Postby Mutley » Sat Sep 04, 2010 7:12 am

knaughty wrote:I used to have problems in Naxx-25 on fights with lots of raid damage if I was on OT duty, bug JoLing boss - I'd peel the boss off the main tank with JoL threat alone...


Few days after 3.0.2, when we were doing twins I pulled Alythess of our ranged tank with just JoL threat :/ Luckily one wipe didn't matter that much as it was trivial at that point anyway. :)
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Re: Guys don't worry

Postby Noradin » Sat Sep 04, 2010 12:35 pm

JoL threat was just ridiculous. I don't know how they ever thought it was a good idea to make that go life.
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Re: Guys don't worry

Postby Neptuno » Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:31 am

you'll be trying to get your guild rep up anyway, so you shouldn't have to pug with scrubs that much early on.
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Re: Guys don't worry

Postby Candiru » Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:48 am

I remember tanking Felmyst where my connection dropped off, and when I logged back in Felmyst was on 1% and still attacking me! I was very lucky and there weren't any deep breaths deep south.

That JoL threat was crazy.
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Re: Guys don't worry

Postby Rasmfrackn » Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:36 am

Consecrate most certainly did not scale faster than DPS AE. Hyjal trash was glue because you were taking 5-7k healing per second, so you got threat like you were chaining mana pots every second on top of consecrate. You needed both for the crazy levels of threat. Consecrate alone didn't do it.

-- Oh, and BoSanctuary procs too. Constantly blocking 10 ghouls is a lot of mana.
-- Oh, double and... extra holy damage on every block from BoSanc as well.

They end up giving us too many AE tanking tools and then everyone assumes it's consecrate. At 70 it was SA and BoSanc, at 80 it's SoCleave and 4-target HotR.

Of course, having nothing but Hammer of Holy Nova for most AE tanking sounds a little boring, but at least AS isn't bad for it unless we want to glyph it for single target damage.
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Re: Guys don't worry

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:44 pm

BoSanc didn't restore mana back then, but it did provide more reflected damage on top of HS and Ret aura. That is if you had another Prot pally in the raid for Kings so you could use it.
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Re: Guys don't worry

Postby Mutley » Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:16 pm

Rasmfrackn wrote:Consecrate most certainly did not scale faster than DPS AE. Hyjal trash was glue because you were taking 5-7k healing per second, so you got threat like you were chaining mana pots every second on top of consecrate. You needed both for the crazy levels of threat. Consecrate alone didn't do it.

-- Oh, and BoSanctuary procs too. Constantly blocking 10 ghouls is a lot of mana.
-- Oh, double and... extra holy damage on every block from BoSanc as well.


Assuming that 7k hps was effective healing, and you were never at full mana. That would've been 700 mana restored per second, so 350 tps. Tanking say 6 mobs in MH that would have meant 58.33 tps per mob. And BoS didn't give mana till 3.0.2.
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Re: Guys don't worry

Postby Noradin » Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:57 pm

Mutley wrote:
Rasmfrackn wrote:Consecrate most certainly did not scale faster than DPS AE. Hyjal trash was glue because you were taking 5-7k healing per second, so you got threat like you were chaining mana pots every second on top of consecrate. You needed both for the crazy levels of threat. Consecrate alone didn't do it.

-- Oh, and BoSanctuary procs too. Constantly blocking 10 ghouls is a lot of mana.
-- Oh, double and... extra holy damage on every block from BoSanc as well.


Assuming that 7k hps was effective healing, and you were never at full mana. That would've been 700 mana restored per second, so 350 tps. Tanking say 6 mobs in MH that would have meant 58.33 tps per mob. And BoS didn't give mana till 3.0.2.

That's before threat multipliers.
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Re: Guys don't worry

Postby trellian » Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:49 pm

Afaik, our threat multiplier never worked on mana gains. Only on holy damage done back then.
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Re: Guys don't worry

Postby Mutley » Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:50 pm

What multipliers? It's not holy damage, and salvation was still around so no 1.43 multiplier either.
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Re: Guys don't worry

Postby Noradin » Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:07 am

I'm pretty sure it did. Wasn't that tested somewhere?

And yes BoS was still around so you didn't get the second multiplier yourself, but everyone else in the raid got BoS so the outcome was the same is if you had it affecting your SA threat.
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Re: Guys don't worry

Postby Mutley » Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:23 am

And it still wouldn't improve it's threat value relative to consecration, which was increased by RF.
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