Shoju's Case Study: Fresh 80 to ICC in 24 hours as DPS.

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Re: Shoju's Case Study: Fresh 80 to ICC in 24 hours as DPS.

Postby Nikachelle » Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:58 am

Here's a question for you, one which I believe would greatly impact your chance to get into ICC.

When you ask to join a pug, what do you intend to tell them? Saying "My main is [insert progression rank here] ICC 10 and I know all the tactics" will get you a lot further than someone saying "I've never been in ICC but I know all the tactics." What do you plan to do about approaching pugs?
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Re: Shoju's Case Study: Fresh 80 to ICC in 24 hours as DPS.

Postby lythac » Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:01 am

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Re: Shoju's Case Study: Fresh 80 to ICC in 24 hours as DPS.

Postby Shoju » Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:12 am

Nikachelle wrote:Here's a question for you, one which I believe would greatly impact your chance to get into ICC.

When you ask to join a pug, what do you intend to tell them? Saying "My main is [insert progression rank here] ICC 10 and I know all the tactics" will get you a lot further than someone saying "I've never been in ICC but I know all the tactics." What do you plan to do about approaching pugs?


Well, I have been running this study completely without my other characters. I thought that I would maybe use my other characters so that I could just get gems and enchants done, and provide tips. I didn't even do that (because I forgot that my JC had the cuts, and I was out of enchanting vellums).

My plan is to watch for pugs looking for DPS. When they are looking it is easier to get in than when you are looking. If they ask for an Achievement, I'm going to come back with:

"I don't have an achievement for ICC, but if you give me 1 boss kill, I will prove you didn't make a mistake by bringing me."

That doesn't say that I have 4 other toons that I have done ICC with, or what my main is, or my progression level. If they ask, how I know, I will probably say something like:

"Quiz me. Ask me what I need to do when, and I will give you the answer"

Is this true new 80? probably not. This is more dedicated new 80, who has 1 goal. He wants to see Arthas drop dead. So to make sure he can see that happen, he is going to do some research. I googled ICC boss videos, and the first thing on the list is the tankspot videos. I think that it is a reasonable assumption that someone who is determined to get into ICC can google that simple phrase and watch videos.
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Re: Shoju's Case Study: Fresh 80 to ICC in 24 hours as DPS.

Postby Giggitygoo » Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:29 am

Here's a question for you, one which I believe would greatly impact your chance to get into ICC.

When you ask to join a pug, what do you intend to tell them? Saying "My main is [insert progression rank here] ICC 10 and I know all the tactics" will get you a lot further than someone saying "I've never been in ICC but I know all the tactics." What do you plan to do about approaching pugs?


Best....question...ever...

Is this true new 80? probably not. This is more dedicated new 80, who has 1 goal. He wants to see Arthas drop dead. So to make sure he can see that happen, he is going to do some research. I googled ICC boss videos, and the first thing on the list is the tankspot videos. I think that it is a reasonable assumption that someone who is determined to get into ICC can google that simple phrase and watch videos


Wonder if nik is gonna let that slide Shoju...

You'll probably either be told to bog off by the pug leader or end up demonstrating much more knowledge than people normally gain from watching tankspot vids and get in.

Ima shut up and let Nik reply though. :D
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Re: Shoju's Case Study: Fresh 80 to ICC in 24 hours as DPS.

Postby Nikachelle » Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:32 am

Reply? There's nothing for me to reply to. He answered what he thinks will work. I don't disagree with him. We'll just have to see how it plays out.
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Re: Shoju's Case Study: Fresh 80 to ICC in 24 hours as DPS.

Postby Giggitygoo » Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:45 am

Reply? There's nothing for me to reply to. He answered what he thinks will work. I don't disagree with him. We'll just have to see how it plays out.


Hmm fair enough I was expecting your opinion on if you thought this was a fair expectation of what a new player would be able to do or not.

You must have one. No?
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Re: Shoju's Case Study: Fresh 80 to ICC in 24 hours as DPS.

Postby andx » Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:47 am

Giggitygoo wrote:
Wonder if nik is gonna let that slide Shoju...

I think you are forgetting who is the assigned case study police for this thread.... and yeah it sounds legit and probably what would happen with a new player. Also Shoju's way of dealing with the pug leaders is a good idea.
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Re: Shoju's Case Study: Fresh 80 to ICC in 24 hours as DPS.

Postby Shoju » Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:15 am

andx wrote:
Giggitygoo wrote:
Wonder if nik is gonna let that slide Shoju...

I think you are forgetting who is the assigned case study police for this thread.... and yeah it sounds legit and probably what would happen with a new player. Also Shoju's way of dealing with the pug leaders is a good idea.



I mean obviously if they give me one boss kill they are going to realize that I know what is up. When I turn around and mow down a bone spike, and move appropriately during bone storm, they are going to realize I'm not a flaming moron. God forbid we get to festergut and I move out to the ranged when we get double spored in melee.

I can't stand in fires and expect to progress too far with a group. You would be surprised how prepared you can be by watching videos, taking notes, and reading. Is it typical? no, but getting inside ICC and killing a boss is the goal. I'm trying to do everything I can to be ambiguous and non revealing of who or what I am in the meantime.
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Re: Shoju's Case Study: Fresh 80 to ICC in 24 hours as DPS.

Postby warden » Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:52 am

I think this is a fairly reasonable expectation. We're usually pretty tough on pugs in these things, and "No, but I've watched the video (preferably even one from a pov of their role) and read up on the fight" is a good enough answer for us. Usually we might ask as simple question, such as, if we're doing LK, "what, specifically, do YOU do if you are soul harvested in p3" to confirm that knowledge. Its better than them saying "yes" and the armory disagreeing.

I think Shoju will have pretty good luck with his answer. Also, remember than in Bara's study, the "give me a try until Marrowgar and I'll impress you or you can kick me" type answer worked quite well.
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Re: Shoju's Case Study: Fresh 80 to ICC in 24 hours as DPS.

Postby Chicken » Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:56 am

I think people should distinguish as well between someone that's entirely new to gaming and someone that's new to MMO gaming. WoW was the first MMO I played that had a significant amount of group-focused content (Previous MMOs I played player interaction was mostly trading), but it's certainly not the first game I played. WoW itself plays like a bit of a blend between an action RPG and a more traditional RPG, and I'd played plenty of those before. The experience translates very well between the two for many of the basic boss designs. Take Marrowgar for instance, he shoots blue flames, he spawns extra stuff you can hit and you don't want to be near him when he's spinning in circles. All three of those? Designs I've seen plenty of times in other games; blue flames are always a bad sign, extra stuff is something you usually kill and spinning in circles is actually quite frequently a sign to hang back for a bit and wait for an opening.

Gearing and such are a bit more obscure I'll admit, but for a lot of RPGs the actual mechanics are fairly obscure and worth looking up online anyway, so nothing alien there. When I was leveling I made a bunch of weird choices, no doubt about it, but that's because I had no idea what was going to be expected of me. I started adjusting my spec already to be more suited towards a single role as I did 5-man instances, but I eventually just did some looking around on the official forums to see what kind of stats I wanted, and actually came to the pleasant surprise that my spec actually matched the recommended spec for my chosen role as it was.

Anyway, my point is that someone new to WoW doesn't have to be entirely new to gaming, and could already have a fairly solid grasp on some basic mechanics which translate well to WoW.
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Re: Shoju's Case Study: Fresh 80 to ICC in 24 hours as DPS.

Postby Kelaan » Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:24 am

Shoju wrote:"I don't have an achievement for ICC, but if you give me 1 boss kill, I will prove you didn't make a mistake by bringing me."


I'd specifically also mention that you've taken the time to research your responsibilities for the fight, have studied the Tankspot instruction videos, also. Otherwise you're basically saying, "trust me, I'll be OK"; that's not quite as strong as "I've researched how to avoid failure".
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Re: Shoju's Case Study: Fresh 80 to ICC in 24 hours as DPS.

Postby Kelaan » Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:31 am

Shoju wrote:My hope is that a couple of the 10man casual guilds on server are short a DPSer on a Friday night, and I can weasel my way in. They normally have terrible loot rules, like... You can't win over a guildie. Though, most of them are so overgeared that it really means that just the hard to get drops and H:Lootship drops are off limits. Crappy yes, but it might just be my way in the door.


Replying here rather than the Successes thread because I think it's more fitting.

Looking at guild progression, and finding casual guilds that raid at times you can make sounds like a GREAT way to get into ICC. If you strike up a friendly personal relationship with one of these guilds, they may be much more likely than your average bear to bring you along. Tell them the dps you do on single target, and that you've been doing research on the fights, and would like a shot (even with no loot) at seeing the content with them should they have an open slot for melee dps some night.
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Re: Shoju's Case Study: Fresh 80 to ICC in 24 hours as DPS.

Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:39 am

Kelaan wrote:If you strike up a friendly personal relationship with one of these guilds, they may be much more likely than your average bear to bring you along.


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Re: Shoju's Case Study: Fresh 80 to ICC in 24 hours as DPS.

Postby Shoju » Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:21 pm

Logged in to pick up my auctions, and saw

/2 LFM ICC10 @Saurfang. Need 3DPS, 2R.


I quickly whisper and say that I'm Melee, and would go.

R- I get back: GS?
me- I say: 4838, but it is a very NICE 4800.
R- Nice?
me- I have put a ton of work into getting my gear ready.
R- Come to bank steps.

So I head to the bank steps. Could it be this easy? Could I really have just gotten in? I get to the steps, and he looks me over. He says:

Look. I can tell you know what you are doing, and I would love to take you, but the raid said 4800 is too low. if you were 5k, You would be in no problem.

I say, Ok. thanks for giving me the inspect.

I head off, and decide that I'm going to make one last run at H:FoS/H:PoS for the head, Neck, and Ring. I don't have enough time to sit in queue, so I'm going to do it the hard way.


/2 DPS LFG ICC 5's. All 3.

After a couple of minutes I find a tank, and then a healer. We can't get anymore DPS, so we queue and go in.

H:FOS
Paladin Tank
Priest Healer
Ret
Hunter

The Ret is geared to the teeth. He is pulling 7k on trash. We down Bronjahm, and the head drops. The hunter needs, I need. I win. Hunter is complaining that I should give it to him because he is using a 200. I feel bad, but I'm not giving up the head. We down Devourer of Souls, and the tank and healer I got from trade drop immediately. :(

Looking at my time played, I burnt 20minutes to get the hat. I have to gem it for hit since my leather helm had hit on it, but I'm happy. I blow the rest of my gold to get the arcanum and the gems. I'm down to 175g.
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Re: Shoju's Case Study: Fresh 80 to ICC in 24 hours as DPS.

Postby Barathorn » Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:32 am

Shoju wrote:Logged in to pick up my auctions, and saw

/2 LFM ICC10 @Saurfang. Need 3DPS, 2R.


I quickly whisper and say that I'm Melee, and would go.

R- I get back: GS?
me- I say: 4838, but it is a very NICE 4800.
R- Nice?
me- I have put a ton of work into getting my gear ready.
R- Come to bank steps.

So I head to the bank steps. Could it be this easy? Could I really have just gotten in? I get to the steps, and he looks me over. He says:

Look. I can tell you know what you are doing, and I would love to take you, but the raid said 4800 is too low. if you were 5k, You would be in no problem.

I say, Ok. thanks for giving me the inspect.


See this is where I really started to get very angry in my study. I had much the same thing, with people saying yes we can see you know your stuff and that you have the gear but your GS is simply 001 - 500 too low.

So instead a raid leader would rather potentially take someone who doesn't have a clue, has crap gems and enchants, but somehow managed to mouthbreathe their way through some heroics to get some random drops and some EoT gear.

I would have given you a chance Shoju, if people have good gems and enchants and show they know what they are doing, that is good enough for me.

The actual getting into ICC10 was the one single thing that broke my resolve in the study I carried out. Simply because people were stupid about GS.
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