Libram of Zeal vs. Libram of Divine Purpose, wasted badges

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Libram of Zeal vs. Libram of Divine Purpose, wasted badges

Postby Blaen99 » Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:01 am

(Note: This argument applies solely to the tanks that take judge crusader. If you don't judge crusader, you may as well ignore this post, I just wanted to bitch about a major screwup by Blizz.)

Libram of Zeal. +47 holy damage if Crusader is judged. 15 or 30 marks from Thrallmar, 62 blue.

Divine Purpose, +63 holy damage to SoR and JoR. 20 badges, 70 epic.

TPS advantage for S/JoR: (63-47) = 16 spell damage.

9.2% TPS coefficient for SoR means 1.472 TPS advantage.
(16 * 71.43%) / (10, 9, and 8) means (1.143, 1.27, 1.429) TPS advantage.

This gives a total of 2.615 to 2.901 TPS advantage from solely J/SoR.

Now, to compare Zeal's advantages.

47 holy damage to Consecrate. At a 95.4% coefficient over 8 seconds, this results in a 5.605 TPS advantage.

Holy Shield has a 5% coefficient. Assuming 1 block per 2 seconds, this gives a 1.8 TPS advantage.

Overall, this is a total of a 7.405 TPS advantage for Zeal with consecrate and HS.

Overall, it's a roughly 5 TPS advantage in Zeal's favor even giving the Badge libram the best case situation...

And it's a 62 blue.

WTF Blizz?
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Postby Faelure » Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:42 am

I know you said that it applies to those who judge crusader, but I just want to emphasize that Libram of Divine Purpose is much more versatile than Libram of Zeal because you can choose to judge other things.

I use wisdom at least 75% of the time so Zeal would have few returns for me.
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Postby Aalryn » Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:01 am

I wouldn't use either libram for tanking.

That being said, you should know by now that just because something is "epic" or a "higher itemlevel" doesn't mean it's better.

I passed on a LOT of epic cloaks because devilshark's cape was simply better. I used my lower city prayer book forever, passing on every epic trinket to drop, because it was better than almost every other trinket out there for a holy paladin.

I remember on my shaman when raiding naxx. I replaced my epic rings with that blue ring that came out at the new EPL vendor. That band of piety was ridiculous.
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Postby Faelure » Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:36 pm

Aalryn wrote:I wouldn't use either libram for tanking.

That being said, you should know by now that just because something is "epic" or a "higher itemlevel" doesn't mean it's better.

I passed on a LOT of epic cloaks because devilshark's cape was simply better. I used my lower city prayer book forever, passing on every epic trinket to drop, because it was better than almost every other trinket out there for a holy paladin.

I remember on my shaman when raiding naxx. I replaced my epic rings with that blue ring that came out at the new EPL vendor. That band of piety was ridiculous.


Lets face it, pre-raid libram choice is fairly limited and if you don't need uncrushable for some reason you might as well drop libram of repentence for something.
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Postby Blaen99 » Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:55 pm

Faelure wrote:
Aalryn wrote:I wouldn't use either libram for tanking.

That being said, you should know by now that just because something is "epic" or a "higher itemlevel" doesn't mean it's better.

I passed on a LOT of epic cloaks because devilshark's cape was simply better. I used my lower city prayer book forever, passing on every epic trinket to drop, because it was better than almost every other trinket out there for a holy paladin.

I remember on my shaman when raiding naxx. I replaced my epic rings with that blue ring that came out at the new EPL vendor. That band of piety was ridiculous.


Lets face it, pre-raid libram choice is fairly limited and if you don't need uncrushable for some reason you might as well drop libram of repentence for something.


QFT. Some of us are still trying to drop block rating :(.
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Postby Aalryn » Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:09 pm

Blaen99 wrote:
QFT. Some of us are still trying to drop block rating :(.


true.. I guess if i didn't have the mother libram and didn't need the block rating, i'd switch to the SoR trinket or the consecration one for aoe tank situations.
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Postby Roselace » Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:30 pm

The nice thing about having a mobile library is that you can be slightly more versitle. That said, get both and play around with them. In some cases, you can swap librams, judge, and swap back simply using the GCDs for the swaping to amp the judgement thats NOT on the GCD (I do have some play time in my rotation some times). And thanks for reminding me I need to pick up this libram when I see it on the AH again.

And as a friend pointed out, it is possible that the new libram is an off tank libram. I haven't played around with it like I should but it could amp the normal whacks by 63 each time as well. That would give us some nice mana efficient agro on targets. Dunno how efficient it would be but it's kinda nice.
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Postby minathia » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:44 am

This is sort of a Ret question, but....

What librams out there are good for them? I have a Ret pally in my raids, and am thinking if this is a good (the best) libram out there for him, it may be a double bonus for threat for me!

Any Retnubs out there who can verify?

PS: <3 my Retnubs.
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Postby Pensz » Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:06 am

minathia wrote:This is sort of a Ret question, but....

What librams out there are good for them? I have a Ret pally in my raids, and am thinking if this is a good (the best) libram out there for him, it may be a double bonus for threat for me!

Any Retnubs out there who can verify?

PS: <3 my Retnubs.


http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27484
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the heroic badge libram is pretty good.

Postby twinkfist » Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:13 am

if that was posed just above me, ignore this response.
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Postby minathia » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:47 pm

Pensz wrote:
minathia wrote:This is sort of a Ret question, but....

What librams out there are good for them? I have a Ret pally in my raids, and am thinking if this is a good (the best) libram out there for him, it may be a double bonus for threat for me!

Any Retnubs out there who can verify?

PS: <3 my Retnubs.


http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27484

Really? All the PVE Retnubs I know use SoB, not command, as it streamlines better with typical DPS plate stats.
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Postby Eanin » Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:30 pm

Those Hellfire rewards are great. Mark of Conquest is the best mana-regen trinket for hunters in the game, for example.

I think having them be that good is deliberate.
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Postby Emmi » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:28 am

minathia wrote:
Pensz wrote:
minathia wrote:This is sort of a Ret question, but....

What librams out there are good for them? I have a Ret pally in my raids, and am thinking if this is a good (the best) libram out there for him, it may be a double bonus for threat for me!

Any Retnubs out there who can verify?

PS: <3 my Retnubs.


http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27484

Really? All the PVE Retnubs I know use SoB, not command, as it streamlines better with typical DPS plate stats.


The trinket specifically mentions Judgment of Blood, and the trinket itself is a buff only when Judgment is cast. I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here given that neither SoB nor SoC are effected by this item.
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Postby Faelure » Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:42 am

Emmi wrote:
minathia wrote:
Pensz wrote:
minathia wrote:This is sort of a Ret question, but....

What librams out there are good for them? I have a Ret pally in my raids, and am thinking if this is a good (the best) libram out there for him, it may be a double bonus for threat for me!

Any Retnubs out there who can verify?

PS: <3 my Retnubs.


http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27484

Really? All the PVE Retnubs I know use SoB, not command, as it streamlines better with typical DPS plate stats.


The trinket specifically mentions Judgment of Blood, and the trinket itself is a buff only when Judgment is cast. I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here given that neither SoB nor SoC are effected by this item.


I think he assumed that the link was to the badge ret libram, chance to give you 200 AP on JoC cast or something. PvP gear for BE pallys or pretty decent trinket for Alliance paladins. The best part about Libram of Avengement is that it has a goofy refresh similar to the Ashtongue Talisman of old.
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Postby Fridmarr » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:16 pm

Roselace wrote:I haven't played around with it like I should but it could amp the normal whacks by 63 each time as well. That would give us some nice mana efficient agro on targets. Dunno how efficient it would be but it's kinda nice.


It doesn't, it is acts like you have +63spell dmg, and so is effected by the coefficient of SoR. If it actually increased the dmg done by SoR by 63 each hit, it might be worth it.
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