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Exorcism

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Exorcism

Postby Arianne » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:16 am

Exorcism Rank 9
8% of base mana 30 yd range
1.5 sec cast 15 sec cooldown
Causes [1028 + 0.15 * SPH + 0.15 * AP] to [1146 + 0.15 * SPH + 0.15 * AP] Holy damage to an enemy target. If the target is Undead or Demon, it will always critically hit.

Is instant cast Exorcism too powerful for Prot paladins?

Under the Yes camp:
We don't need another ranged attack. We already have AS and will have 30 yard judgement. We have two taunts.

It will do too much damage in PVP situations. A prot paladin wearing Ret gear in Arena/BGs will have ~8k attack power and 2k strength, which means ~500 spellpower. So ~2400-2500 with the current rank 9 (though that will probably increase at 85). Everything else is going to increase too, so Exorcism will probably hit for ~4k by the time the increases get done. If you add AW then it'll hit for ~5k. Exorcism+AS+3ShoR = ~20k. Add in Vengeance stacks (more likely in a BG than in arena unless you don't have an offensive dispel) and a health of 60k and you could end up with that combo doing 40k in 3 GCDs.

Under the No camp:
Exorcism has a 15s cooldown, so you won't be able to use it very often.

Even if you can do 50k in PVP under the ideal conditions, that took 15s of ramp up time and required you to blow all of your cooldowns. Plus there are lots of classes that are able to offensively dispel. Being snared will lead you to not be on your target very frequently, plus if you're not being attacked then you won't gain vengeance stacks even if the other team doesn't have an offensive dispel.

Anyone else have thoughts, or a simple opinion on whether instant cast exorcism would be too powerful for prot?
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Re: Exorcism

Postby Nikachelle » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:24 am

It used to be an instant cast for a time during Wrath, and was fucking HANDY for adds on Yogg phase 1. I'd like it back plox.
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Re: Exorcism

Postby Worldie » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:28 am

With Judgement being brought to 30 yds (since I'm quite sure every single paladin of every spec will spec into the range increase), I don't really see the needing for Exorcism istant cast.

Also cause let's look at it, we'd be able to Hand of Reckoning -> Judge -> Exorcism -> Avenger Shield (glyphed if the glyph remains) and kill a mob before it gets anywhere close. We aren't casters.
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Re: Exorcism

Postby Arianne » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:34 am

HoR doesn't have damage in Cata. Judgement does ~2k? So that'll probably increase to around 3k by 85. Exorcism would do ~4k. AS will do ~6k. So that'll be ~13k up to 30 yards away. Most mobs these days have more than that around level 60 or so, though there are some notable exceptions (like iron dwarves in the JC cave). They have however tripled all mob health for Cataclysm mobs, so I'm not sure what the average health is there?

You could only use the J -> Exo -> AS combo every 15s as well (because Exo and AS both have 15s cooldowns). So you'd pull and possibly kill one mob via J->E->AS and then you'd have to do J -> CS -> ShoR or something, so you'd only be able to do a ranged kill every 15s.

I can currently kill some of the JC daily mobs (iron dwarves and valk maidens) from range with HoR->J->AS or with minor melee HoR -> J -> ShoR. So is it a big deal if we can do J->Exo->AS in Cata? Hrm... I dunno, but it's an interesting point.
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Re: Exorcism

Postby Worldie » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:36 am

The thing is, we shouldn't be able to do it now nor later :)

After all, HoR and Exorcism got nerfed due to PvP QQ, like always.
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Re: Exorcism

Postby Arianne » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:43 am

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out if an instant cast Exo for Prot would be too much for PVP. Does anyone remember how much Exo was hitting for before they nerfed it because of PVP QQ last time? Did it have a reduced timer? Does it become less overpowered when people have 60k life instead of the 30k they had at patch 3.1?
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Re: Exorcism

Postby steadypal » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:52 am

to solve the instant exo for pvp issue make it deep prot, similar to art of war procs.. would fit better with grand crusader imo, just git it a much higher proc chance so it'll be up more.., just like art of war
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Re: Exorcism

Postby Arianne » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:12 am

I don't think we should have the same mechanic as Ret. I'm just thinking about what our rotation would be like if we had instant cast exo with no cooldown change (ie: every 15s).
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Re: Exorcism

Postby Candiru » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:55 am

Holy have a talent for making exorcism instant cast too.

Since exorcism is basically only cast when its instant, or to pull I think they should change the spell fundamentally.

Make it like revenge, it cannot be used without a proc. It could either proc from crit heals / melee swings / blocks, or it could have a unique proc in each tree for choosing a specialisation.

Ret art of war can still have the massive damage increase and crit boost, so no ret is going to want to cast exorcism until art of war procs anyway.
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Re: Exorcism

Postby Marblehead » Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:05 pm

Exorcism has 6sec cooldown in beta.
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Re: Exorcism

Postby Darielle » Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:15 pm

There's no real need or point for more ranged abilities for us.

I mean, you could ask "Why not" but you need a "Why" first.
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Re: Exorcism

Postby Amanor » Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:32 pm

Worldie wrote:After all, HoR and Exorcism got nerfed due to PvP QQ, like always.


Perhaps, but was it not for Ret's use in PVP as opposed to Prot's?
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Re: Exorcism

Postby Arianne » Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:09 pm

I'm trying to figure out what abilities I can use to theorycraft a better rotation. Since they don't seem to want to give us new abilities, it seems like one of the ways to do that would be to make Exorcism useful for Prot. That would require that we have a talent that reduced it to instant cast. I wanted to see what other people thought of instant cast Exorcism because it had already been nerfed previously. I also didn't know that it was 6s on the Beta (evidently my wowhead skillz failed me). I do think it's probably too powerful for Prot to use when it has a 6s cooldown. /sigh
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Re: Exorcism

Postby Arincia » Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:00 pm

Hmm if you assumed we could get instant cast exo. With Hammer of Wrath active you could go:

CS-J-Exo-CS-HoW-AS-CS-HW-SoR-repeat

subbing in Conc with HW (holy wrath) should yield a full GCD of threat if exo was instant cast. Almost wish we had HoW full time (toned down if needed for balance) and instant cast exo as it very much smooths everything out. Best thing is that if we didn't want to use conc/holy wrath with SoR duration we could so only 1 GCD empty per 15 seconds or 4 per minute which fits in with blizzards intentions to not gcd lock a person. Also you could swap exo with HoW and have exo as a pulling tool. And for picking up adds we then have 2 taunts and exo+judgement for ranged threat.

The only thing i'm finding ironic about prot pally rotations is that the minute we can include HoW it instantly becomes a lot more stable. Then again this also shows if we got 2 abilities on a 6 sec cooldown then our rotation would be complete for the most part and much easier to sort out. (or 1 ability on a 4.5 sec cooldown)
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Re: Exorcism

Postby Sonic » Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:16 pm

Darielle wrote:There's no real need or point for more ranged abilities for us.

I mean, you could ask "Why not" but you need a "Why" first.



Why? Because right now we still have major gaps in our rotation. And even if that stays Exo would be better for single target instead of Holy Wrath which eats a large chunk of mana.
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