Guys don't worry

SPOILERS Discussion about the Cataclysm Beta SPOILERS

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Guys don't worry

Postby Invisusira » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:52 am

Blizzard wrote:Do consider that you won't be AE'ing yourselves through Cataclysm content the way you do currently.

Well thank god, I never thought I'd see the day when they said that!


oh wait
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Re: Guys don't worry

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:04 am

Sadly, based on the admittedly small amount of group content currently in the beta, this is just currently not true. :(
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Re: Guys don't worry

Postby ulushnar » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:14 am

Sabindeus wrote:Sadly, based on the admittedly small amount of group content currently in the beta, this is just currently not true. :(


The levelling dungeons in any expansion aren't really meant to be challenging. Hell, I tanked Ramparts with my BM Hunter back in early TBC and I know other groups who managed to do the same up to Mana Tombs at least.

If the heroics and raids aren't at least a little bit arse-kick-y though, I'll be upset.
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Re: Guys don't worry

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:21 am

ulushnar wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:Sadly, based on the admittedly small amount of group content currently in the beta, this is just currently not true. :(


The levelling dungeons in any expansion aren't really meant to be challenging. Hell, I tanked Ramparts with my BM Hunter back in early TBC and I know other groups who managed to do the same up to Mana Tombs at least.

If the heroics and raids aren't at least a little bit arse-kick-y though, I'll be upset.


I didn't say they weren't challenging! I just said we were AoEing things. :p
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Re: Guys don't worry

Postby Arcand » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:49 am

Sabindeus wrote:I didn't say they weren't challenging! I just said we were AoEing things. :p


I'd love it if you would explain this. :?
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Re: Guys don't worry

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:59 am

Arcand wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:I didn't say they weren't challenging! I just said we were AoEing things. :p


I'd love it if you would explain this. :?


My challenge came from trying to maintain aggro on a bunch of mobs against L81+ dps with a gimped as hell AoE toolkit, and then fairly involved boss fights. Also the fact that I am squishy as all hell now.
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Re: Guys don't worry

Postby Arcand » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:04 am

Oh goodie I can't wait :(
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Re: Guys don't worry

Postby Archeth » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:15 am

Except for the fact that some classes have too much auto-AoE built in right now, and until RS there was virtually no trash that was dangerous enough to require CC and single target focus firing vs. "tank all, AoE, rinse repeat", I don't really think having lots of multi-mob trash to use your AoE spells on was such a bad thing. AoE trash, single target bosses and scarier trash - I know it led to even more people not bothering to even hotkey their CC abilities, but let's be honest here, most PUG clowns wouldn't even use CC if their (group's) life depended on it, just as they're not bothering to watch aggro and instead blame the tank who struggled with AoE threat right now.

But I guess they really got to love this idea to nerf the shit out of AoE tanking and generally nerf everyone's AoE. So if mobs don't hit hard enough we still AoE them, but now it takes longer and potentially gets more boring, while tanks have a harder time keeping packs of mobs on them. Either way, they said they're going for a middle way between "AoE, roffles!" of WoTLK and the "every trash pack needs to be CCed and killed one by one" excess of TBC. Let's hope they manage.
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Re: Guys don't worry

Postby Arcand » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:17 am

Archeth wrote:the "every trash pack needs to be CCed and killed one by one" excess of TBC. Let's hope they manage.


Excess of awesomeness, maybe. :)
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Re: Guys don't worry

Postby Archeth » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:19 am

As a mage back then I can tell you that the only thing which was remotely awesome was how easily you got into dungeon groups with a CC that didn't suck. Other than that, no, it wasn't fun at all when you had to sheep something every 10 meters.

At least it wasn't to me.
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Re: Guys don't worry

Postby Arcand » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:34 am

We should have done some heroics together - I'm sure my enjoyment would have
rubbed off on you. ;)
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Re: Guys don't worry

Postby Shathus » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:38 am

The important thing to remember is that regardless of what the dungeons are like... whatever you mark with a Skull will be killed by PuG dps last... :x

That's the other thing that will be interesting, say what you will about the AoE-fest heroics are now, regardless of if they suck or not, tanks don't really have to have that much of a knowledge of mob abilities (ie: a kill order). If we're heading back to more CC/focus fire, there will be more responsibility (generally) on the tank to know what mobs do, mark them for a kill order successfully and execute.

It's like when you're doing Old Kingdom and people ignore the Spell Flingers then wonder what blew the tank up because no one bothered killing/interrupting the Shadow Blast(s). Granted now that everyone has the ability to mark targets, you at least have that, but it assumes people FOLLOW the marks. We'll see.
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Re: Guys don't worry

Postby Archeth » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:41 am

Heroics, maybe. I actually had a guild mate who was very impressive with AoE tanking as a warrior, almost as good as the average paladin tank (of which my guild only had 1.5 or so). But raids, eww. Keeping aggro wasn't the main issue with all these guys I had to keep in pig form in TK and SSC, etc. :)
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Re: Guys don't worry

Postby Arcand » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:44 am

Shathus wrote:The important thing to remember is that regardless of what the dungeons are like... whatever you mark with a Skull will be killed by PuG dps last... :x


And the very choicest ones will tell you not to mark. :roll: I haven't yet made a macro that says "/p I've been marking targets for years, I do it without even thinking about it. If you prefer ignorance to information, just ignore them." but I'm getting closer.

It's like when you're doing Old Kingdom and people ignore the Spell Flingers then wonder what blew the tank up because no one bothered killing/interrupting the Shadow Blast(s). Granted now that everyone has the ability to mark targets, you at least have that, but it assumes people FOLLOW the marks. We'll see.


First group with a Spell Flinger, the patrolling one - does it path up further than it used to, toward the entrance? Lately
I find it easier to grab that pack without getting dangerously close to the one inside and right.
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Re: Guys don't worry

Postby Noradin » Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:37 pm

Shathus wrote:The important thing to remember is that regardless of what the dungeons are like... whatever you mark with a Skull will be killed by PuG dps last... :x


My guild and raid used to mark dangerous things with a skull - as in patrols that should not be pulled (and consequently not damaged) :)
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