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New Beta Build Build 12803 8/20/2010

SPOILERS Discussion about the Cataclysm Beta SPOILERS

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Re: New Beta Build Build 12803 8/20/2010

Postby halabar » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:52 am

And all you pally tanks won't have hunters MDing to you with Volley. They are removing volley from the game. (Gogo mage aoe damage tears).
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Re: New Beta Build Build 12803 8/20/2010

Postby Chicken » Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:52 pm

halabar wrote:And all you pally tanks won't have hunters MDing to you with Volley. They are removing volley from the game. (Gogo mage aoe damage tears).
We'll instead have them MDing to us with a non-target limited Multi Shot. Not really much difference.

Edit: They haven't confirmed that they'll remove the target limit on Multi Shot before anyone asks, it just seems most likely seeing that's what they're going for when I read Ghostcrawler's posts on the subject.
Last edited by Chicken on Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Beta Build Build 12803 8/20/2010

Postby Rasmfrackn » Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:57 pm

I just wanted to say, on the topic of new tanking tools, that I think a (good) gap closer and an interrupt are both nice-to-haves more than necessities. As tanks, we want more control and personal responsibility because that's the type of person that's drawn to tanking. We'd rather have tools to do things than trust other people to handle the vital roles. At least, that's my concept of the type of person who chooses to tank. :)

6 of 10 classes have interrupts, so you can't even make a 5-man without an interrupt unless you double up on a class. Gap closers are really useful, but mostly when something's going wrong or you didn't plan well. The question, of course, is how MUCH of a burden it is to not have these tools.

It certainly seems like they want tanks to have gap closers and interrupts, since 3 out of 4 tanks do have them in one form or another. I didn't really mind having my interrupt on HoJ, since it wasn't usually a useful ability, and even though it was on the GCD I could use it in a pinch. I was bummed when it went from 20 seconds to 30 seconds, though. Putting it on AS is just not useful, though, imo, since it's bound to be on cooldown even against single targets... AND it has a travel time.

I think I'm just glad I've got rocket boots, and I hope there's an upgrade to them in Cata... maybe one with stamina instead of crit. :)
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Re: New Beta Build Build 12803 8/20/2010

Postby steadypal » Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:44 pm

pretty sad when ppl are like, its okay i have rocket boots, when long arm of the law is pretty much mini rocket boots, just shows it'd be nice for prot to have it :P
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Re: New Beta Build Build 12803 8/20/2010

Postby Amirya » Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:00 pm

steadypal wrote:pretty sad when ppl are like, its okay i have rocket boots, when long arm of the law is pretty much mini rocket boots, just shows it'd be nice for prot to have it :P

I'm sure it'd be nice for Holy too, because there's ALWAYS that idiot who runs out of range of the healers.

I put rockets on my ret boots, which are gathering dust in the bank. I simply deal with a non-charge/dg gap closing of running to the mob in question.

I don't understand the big deal. Would it be nice? Sure. Is it game breaking? Not really.

Interrupts, on the other hand... :mrgreen:
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Re: New Beta Build Build 12803 8/20/2010

Postby knaughty » Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:41 pm

halabar wrote:And all you pally tanks won't have hunters MDing to you with Volley. They are removing volley from the game. (Gogo mage aoe damage tears).

Aren't they removing MD entirely?

-FIXT-

Yes, I meant MD...
Last edited by knaughty on Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New Beta Build Build 12803 8/20/2010

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:47 pm

knaughty wrote:
halabar wrote:And all you pally tanks won't have hunters MDing to you with Volley. They are removing volley from the game. (Gogo mage aoe damage tears).

Aren't they removing AD entirely?


I assume you meant MD and no they aren't. They're just making its threat temporary.
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Re: New Beta Build Build 12803 8/20/2010

Postby trellian » Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:49 pm

knaughty wrote:
halabar wrote:And all you pally tanks won't have hunters MDing to you with Volley. They are removing volley from the game. (Gogo mage aoe damage tears).

Aren't they removing AD entirely?


I'm asuming you meant to type MD here :)

The threat transfer spells like MD and tricks are not being removed, however the threat transfered will dissipate after a few seconds. So you can still use it to direct mobs to your tank, but you can't use it anymore to artificially boost your tanks' threat output.
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Re: New Beta Build Build 12803 8/20/2010

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:05 pm

:p
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Re: New Beta Build Build 12803 8/20/2010

Postby Lieris » Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:07 pm

Rasmfrackn wrote:I just wanted to say, on the topic of new tanking tools, that I think a (good) gap closer and an interrupt are both nice-to-haves more than necessities.


I want all tanks to have a good interrupt and a gap closer so they can design encounters around that. Tanking in WOTLK was too easy, I'd like all tanks to have the kind of toolkit that warriors have so we can have some really interesting boss battles rather than static tank and spanks in small rooms.
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Re: New Beta Build Build 12803 8/20/2010

Postby Minarva » Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:51 pm

Interestingly enough I wonder why the topic of fear breaks hasn't come up, it definitely was a big deal at WotLK beta. As it turned out no fight had a fear component worth talking about, so perhaps we wont ever have to worry about interrupts (although that idea sounds odd).
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Re: New Beta Build Build 12803 8/20/2010

Postby knaughty » Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:04 pm

Minarva wrote:Interestingly enough I wonder why the topic of fear breaks hasn't come up, it definitely was a big deal at WotLK beta. As it turned out no fight had a fear component worth talking about, so perhaps we wont ever have to worry about interrupts (although that idea sounds odd).


You answered your own question about fear breaks.

The difference between interrupts and fear breaks is that Blizzard stated that fear was going away as an important encounter mechanic, so tanks didn't need a fear break. We just did four tiers of content - while there have been a few encounters where is has been handy to have a fear ward, none of them have felt mandatory, and I can't remember any where I had a boss beating on my feared arse.

Blizzard have not stated that interrupts are going away as an encounter mechanic. On the contrary, they're tweaking interrupts to balance them, implying that they will be an important part of Cataclysm.

I think that all tanks should have an off-GCD interrupt on an 6-10 second timer that isn't part of their standard rotation. Pretty much all melee need a decent one as well.

I'd be fine with 10-sec CD, off-GCD HoJ as the prot interrupt. Would be easy to fit into the deeper part of the tree - I have a vague recollection that prot could get HoJ down to 10 seconds at one point with some set bonus? AS doesn't work - it's part of our rotation, on-GCD and the CD is too long.

I also see no particular problem with Rebuke being in Tier-1 or T-2 ret - so what, Holy PvP would be able to get an interrupt - Resto Shamans get one as well.
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Re: New Beta Build Build 12803 8/20/2010

Postby Steve » Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:22 pm

If holy having access to rebuke is such a big problem, you can just put rebuke deep in both talent trees. Problem solved. Having the same talent in two talent trees is no worse than warriors having essentially the same ability in two stances.
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Re: New Beta Build Build 12803 8/20/2010

Postby Arjuna » Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:34 am

hunters will be able to launch aoe traps into the enemies anyway...
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Re: New Beta Build Build 12803 8/20/2010

Postby Gideon » Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:50 am

Flex wrote:
Modal wrote:Edit: Man, not to respond to anyone in particular, but sometimes I get the impression that some posters regard holy and ret as whole other classes, and only care about prot prot prot.


That's my biggest issue with many Paladin posters in general. The only spec that matters is the one they play.


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