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[25H] The Lich King

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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Gaffer » Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:13 pm

Arianne wrote:How many of you use a 3xHW strat versus a ST stun strat for the Valks? We've recently swapped from using warriors (PH) for the slows to using DKs (Desecration) for the slows, and that works a lot better, but we're still losing 1-2 of the Valks (usually with one at ~55% and one at ~65%). We usually run with 2 rogues, 1 prot pally, and 1-2 Rets (no HoJ reduction talent) so it's pretty hard to get a ST stun rotation out of that group.


Triple AoE stuns probably work, but you're losing a lot of time which might take you longer to progress through than if you organize single target stuns. You'll want to use as many instant stuns on the initial wave as possible. This really depends on your raid comp, but we used 2 Holy Paladins (specced 2/2 Imp HoJ) and a Prot Paladin as our primary stuns with 1 ret or rogue assigned as a back up to each in case of pick up. Using a single stun initially and then going into two AoE stuns gains you almost 4 seconds of stun time so it's definitely not minor.

I'd also look further into your raid group. Holy Paladins, Feral Druids, Prot Warriors can all easily spec into a talent that lets them stun every single wave. And if Val'kyr are what you're really struggling with, it might be worth it to have your Retribution Paladins spec into it (Seals of the Pure does not affect Seal of Command). For us, micro-managing our stuns and making sure we had primary and secondary single target instant stuns on each Val'kyr was the difference between going from wiping on the second wave of Val'kyr to getting a kill in less than 30 pulls.


Arianne wrote:What's the timing on that? We've been trying a 3 HW rotation and it seems like they're immune before they're halfway to the edge.


The Val'kyr will be immune to all stuns (except Cheap Shot and maybe the Warlock Infernal stun) after they are stunned three times. After those three Holy Wraths go out, the Val'kyr will be immune. That gives you 5.25s of stun time. After that third stun goes out, you'll need to wait 15 seconds before the DR timer is reset to avoid an immune.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Arianne » Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:13 am

Yeah, we're using a DK tank as our MT, so unfortunately we don't have a prot warrior anywhere in sight. It'd be a lot easier if we did have one - it's one of the only fights where I wish that I was a prot warrior. Why do you recommend 2/2 HoJ instead of 1/2 HoJ for the Holy Pallies? We usually have 1 Holy Pally and 1 cat Druid and 2 Rets, so I guess we could do Holy/Prot/Ret (alternating) or Holy/Prot/Cat.

We're still struggling with getting the melee to run the 'correct' direction (ie: away from where the Valks are going) in phase 2, so stuns is only partially what's killing us. /sigh
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Gaffer » Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:21 pm

We had our Paladins go 2/2 so they could hit every single Val'kyr. It made things much easier to have the same person able to do it every single time because then we were able to have static backups. Being able to instantly stun them all for 6 seconds as soon as they drop keeps them all on top of each other and really makes killing them MUCH easier. It's so much easier that you may want to consider having your DPS Feral spec into Improved Bash and get everyone (although Retribution alternating is also suitable).

Arianne wrote:We're still struggling with getting the melee to run the 'correct' direction (ie: away from where the Valks are going) in phase 2, so stuns is only partially what's killing us. /sigh


The faster you are killing Val'kyr, the less of an issue defile becomes. Like I said, we struggled for a long time to get over the second set of Val'kyr (people are worried about Defile and killing Val'kyr). If you kill them faster, people have more allowance to just start moving towards your defile placement location every time there is a defile. After I had our Holy Paladins go 2/2 Improved Hammer and paired them with our Protection Warrior to cover the initial stun, we breezed through the encounter.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby inthedrops » Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:49 pm

Arianne wrote:What's the timing on that? We've been trying a 3 HW rotation and it seems like they're immune before they're halfway to the edge.


Correct. Kill them faster, make sure slows are proper :) They get more than halfway to the edge before we kill them. One or two might get further.

I agree with everything Gaffer wrote but with the 30% buff you can get away with what we got away with. Do whatever your guild will perform best with. For us, coordinating stun backups wasn't something we felt we could get comfortable with given our fluctuating roster at the time.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Donahu » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:02 am

I haven't seen it asked anywhere so I will...

What happens to the valk if it drops its target off the edge? Does it still fly up and start pewpew'ing the raid or does it go away and leave us alone?

AKA - Does the warlock TP trick still work on heroic and negate the need to DPS a valk every time or is there a fix for this?

Haven't started this one yet, but soon...very soon... ;).
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Treck » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:33 am

The valk is still up there beeing annoying.
Even worse than the other valks, since they were not dpsd healers have aggro on them, and even after you taunt healers will get it back soon enough.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Pala » Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:12 am

This is wild! I didn't see it posted other places and hopefully it doesn't intrude too much on your conversation. Heroic LK, 3 healers, only 2 Valk summons in Phase 2, only 1 sword phase in phase 3, only taking 7:35 to beat him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO8KFr6o ... r_embedded
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Vrimmel » Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:21 pm

My guild is going to start working on lk heroic now. What is different regarding strategy after the patch?
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Brutalus » Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:01 am

Vrimmel wrote:My guild is going to start working on lk heroic now. What is different regarding strategy after the patch?


Very little. The biggest changes that come to mind are the removal of easy access to Aura Mastery and Divine Guardian in the talent trees, and the change to imp. HoJ. As previously stated, infest has become trivial; we lost our disc priest at 50% yesterday and still managed to get deep into phase 3. Regarding the imp. HoJ, neither holy paladins nor rets are able to reach it at level 80, so we've been running with 3 back-to-back holy wraths since the patch. If you have a prot warrior you could also do:

Val'kyr one: Protection Paladin HoJ
Val'kyr two: Protection Warrior Concussion Blow (ret 1 on backup)
Val'kyr three: Holy Paladins rotating HoJ (ret 2 on backup)

The biggest struggle we've had with the fight since the patch was just killing val'kyrs off, really. Be sure that your raiders aren't using some of the new stun talents that they may have recieved to stun the val'kyrs. Lastly, while soaking the vile spirits in phase 3, try to be a bit more cautious before charging into 4 of them than in some of the pre-patch videos, as our cooldowns are only 20% reduction now.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Vrimmel » Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:04 am

My guild currently only has two prot paladin mains for tanking with a dps druid and dk who offtank when needed, although their gear isn't heroic quality.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby baleogthefierce » Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:40 am

Vrimmel wrote:My guild currently only has two prot paladin mains for tanking with a dps druid and dk who offtank when needed, although their gear isn't heroic quality.


Our biggest hurdle in relearning this fight was killing the valks without single target stuns. If you can get prot paladins to handle two of the stuns (and two other folks to rotate stuns on the third valk) you'll have a much easier time than trying to use AoE stuns. We ultimately went with double paladin tank for stuns and had our feral, holy, and ret covering the third valk + backup stuns.

The tighter DPS check combined with the general confusion of relearning how the encounter mechanics play out with your new talents makes it a bit more challenging when using AoE stuns.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Belloc » Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:57 am

Our cooldowns, being 20%, are less effective when vile spirit soaking. Soak wisely, using holy wrath to get some breathing room, lest you blow yourself up.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Vrimmel » Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:36 am

Would you use priest with disperse or ret pala who bubbles?
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Belloc » Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:34 am

Vrimmel wrote:Would you use priest with disperse or ret pala who bubbles?

You could alternate using those... however, a priest would have some difficulty getting to all of the adds without having an AOE stun (In theory, this shouldn't be the case... but in execution, it always is). A bubbled paladin can still use holy wrath to get them all in place and then blow them up, but he'll only have 6 seconds of bubble to do it.

Honestly, use whoever is capable of doing it without error. If you have paladins that can alternate bubbling and blowing them up without missing one, go for it. Otherwise, just use a tank and heal him before he dies. The damage isn't so bad that it's unhealable, but it is bad enough that if you aren't expecting it, you'll blow up too many and die.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby baleogthefierce » Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:14 pm

Belloc wrote:Honestly, use whoever is capable of doing it without error.


This is the main thing. Ultimately your raid has to trust the person soaking to the point where they can ignore what's happening in the middle of the platform and go about the business of placing defile, stacking near LK, and cranking out DPS/HPS.
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