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BC raid tank, haven't played in 2 years, just hit 80

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Re: BC raid tank, haven't played in 2 years, just hit 80

Postby Mahale » Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:10 am

Thanks guys :)
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Re: BC raid tank, haven't played in 2 years, just hit 80

Postby Brauun » Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:02 am

Barathorn wrote:Work on nailing your rotation, PuG's will forgive low health if you don't lose aggro.

This. Seriously. This. It's the truth.

PUG groups don't know how much health you need for an instance, they only know there are some tank with 50k unbuffed HP, so if you have 22k HP for a regular CoT run, to them you're clearly missing health, which you're not. Expect to get commented on your HP on just about every run until you hit 30k HP. However, PUG groups don't know how many armor or avoidance you need for an encounter, so feel free to stack stamina first so they shut up about your HP (but don't forget to get uncrittable ASAP).

They also don't really understand how you generate threat, neither do they care, as long as you hold it. Most DPS running regular and heroics 5-mans suck. Really, they are horrible. And those who are good don't seem to possess a threat meter, or they never look at it, or they just don't give a shit, I don't know. My best advice here is to chain pull everything. Everything. Always. Be faster than them, don't give them the time to look at the mob and think to themselves 'WTF is the tank doing I wanna pew pew stuff'. You only need to check two things: is your healer close and does he have mana. If the answer to both these questions is 'yes', then Reckoning that next group. This way you'll also keep Divine Plea up. If you used to tank in TBC (like I did), you might get a bit thrown off by that, where in TBC we'd wait in between each group, mark, wait for mana and pull. You'll get used to it eventually, and you'll love it.

As far as gear goes, I started tanking with my trusty Kaz'rogal's Hardened Heart, The Brutalizer and a couple of T6 pieces and BT equivalents, some which had been replaced with quest blues while leveling, and others I quickly replaced in instances. To gear up, I found out my two best friends were The Forge of Souls and The Pit of Saron. Both can be chain-runned in regular mode and will drop entry-level tanking epics. FoS will provide you with a pair of pants, a main-hand and a pair of boots. PoS will drop a chestpiece. The main advantage here is that both instances are quite easy, can be chained-runned and yield Badges of Triumph.

And by the way, I got from 20k to 35k HP in about a week. Don't get discouraged by other tanks' HP bars, yours will grow fast too.
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Re: BC raid tank, haven't played in 2 years, just hit 80

Postby Arcand » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:31 am

Brauun wrote:If you used to tank in TBC (like I did), you might get a bit thrown off by that, where in TBC we'd wait in between each group, mark, wait for mana and pull. You'll get used to it eventually, and you'll love it.

I really miss the methodical BC style a lot. :( But I heartily agree with everything else you said. :)
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Re: BC raid tank, haven't played in 2 years, just hit 80

Postby Flex » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:37 am

Arcand wrote:
Brauun wrote:If you used to tank in TBC (like I did), you might get a bit thrown off by that, where in TBC we'd wait in between each group, mark, wait for mana and pull. You'll get used to it eventually, and you'll love it.

I really miss the methodical BC style a lot. :( But I heartily agree with everything else you said. :)


I'm still methodical in my pulling where I make sure the healer has mana and is in range. A guildie doesn't make sure of that last part when he tanks and suffers quite a few deaths.
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Re: BC raid tank, haven't played in 2 years, just hit 80

Postby Brauun » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:04 am

Flex wrote:
Arcand wrote:
Brauun wrote:If you used to tank in TBC (like I did), you might get a bit thrown off by that, where in TBC we'd wait in between each group, mark, wait for mana and pull. You'll get used to it eventually, and you'll love it.

I really miss the methodical BC style a lot. :( But I heartily agree with everything else you said. :)


I'm still methodical in my pulling where I make sure the healer has mana and is in range. A guildie doesn't make sure of that last part when he tanks and suffers quite a few deaths.


I think the pulls still are methodical, just not in the same way. In TBC, unless you really outgeared the content, you'd use CC and LoS pulls. Timing the pull with CCers so the target won't end up in your Consecrate could be hard to pull off in a PUG group (cause that's just how PUGs are, making basic coordinated actions become impossible to pull of). And you used 3 or 4 spells to tank, so you really had to use them in the most efficient way possible. In WotLK, you have more spells at your disposal and about no need to CC. So it becomes more a question of knowing which targets must go down first, and which spells to priorize depending on the situation in front of you, and how to use all those tools to round all those targets so they fit in a consecrate circle.
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Re: BC raid tank, haven't played in 2 years, just hit 80

Postby econ21 » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:51 am

Brauun wrote:To gear up, I found out my two best friends were The Forge of Souls and The Pit of Saron...The main advantage here is that both instances are quite easy, can be chained-runned and yield Badges of Triumph.


I think the idea about gearing up in those instances is a good one, but I would not describe them as easy. They are quite challenging to tank at first (witness the number of threads about how to get aggro on spread out casters in a group); the ramp on PoS can still go pear-shaped for me (something about the incline throws off my camera angle and perception). Poor dps can mean you wipe on the FOS bosses no matter how well you tank; while POS requires good tanking throughout. I'd say the normals were harder than all heroics except the newer ones (especially when you factor in the likely gear level of your party in normals compared to heroics). But I agree in the context of this thread, they are nothing a BC raid tank cannot handle.
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Re: BC raid tank, haven't played in 2 years, just hit 80

Postby Brauun » Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:09 am

First time in ICC10 yesterday. Was just before server reset, so we only did 3/12. Was also my first time in the dungeon. Got hooked, I want to go back! Of course I've read the strats and watched the Tankspot videos, but you just can't know the fight until you've done it. We tried Saurfang, I'm pretty sure we could have nailed him had we had the time for a 2nd try. We one-shotted Marrowgar and Deathwhisper, I got to tank Saurfang on the Gunship part (fun times).

Experience wise, that covers all of Lower Spire. But what about the Plagueworks and the Crimson Halls? Anything specific about any of the bosses which would be particularly challenging, surprising, or anything? Or about trash? I'm not looking at in depth strategies, I'll read guides for this. Just looking for some general insight about what someone with no experience could get pwned by on his first run to minimize my chances of causing a raid wipe.
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Re: BC raid tank, haven't played in 2 years, just hit 80

Postby Brauun » Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:20 am

Oh wait, just found out this thread (http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... =viewtopic), guess I'll just browser through it. Feel free to add any info though.
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Re: BC raid tank, haven't played in 2 years, just hit 80

Postby cerwillis » Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:31 pm

Quick tips:

Festergut: hits kinda hard at times, armor is good. If you tank first, the other tank takes it at 7-9 stacks, then you have a massive dps buff. Click off RF, salv yourself and go to town with a slow dps weap. Don't forget RF again when you take it back.

Rotface: read up/watch a vid on the kiting, in case you are asked to do that job. The green slime slows on hard mode!! Use hand of freedom if it does.

Putricide: One of the tanks has to turn into an abomination, so read up on that part if you plan to do it. Other job is t&s for the most part, move him out of the yellow flasks in p2 and 3, they reduce hit rating by 75% and your melee will QQ.

Blood Princes: Either tank the 2 melee mobs (lots of HP and armor), or tank the shadow guy (Keleseth). Shadow duty means picking up the purple orbs and not letting the raid AOE near you when you have them, (one hit pulls them off of you) The orbs provide much needed SR when he is active, you should have at least 3 at all times. Also, when the raid is hitting him, you will need to make lots of threat.

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Re: BC raid tank, haven't played in 2 years, just hit 80

Postby econ21 » Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:51 am

cerwillis wrote:... Also, when the raid is hitting him, you will need to make lots of threat.


These tips generally are great but I am not sure about the above particular.

When the raid is hitting Kelseth is when he will be capable of killing you (empowered), so you may want to prioritise picking up orbs rather than threat during that period. Try to "bank" a threat lead in the non-empowered time - by initial burst threat with wings on him at the start and then throwing the Hammer at him on cooldown thereafter. The lead may be sufficient to ensure you dont need to make lots of additional threat during the empowered state. The dps can always watch their threat and even stopping dps on Kelseth during the empowered state would not be fatal. It's a survival fight rather than a dps race.

More skilful tanks than I can manage it better, but I found it a fine line between threat and survival as a Kelseth tank. I've died and caused a wipe trying to extent the initial burst too long and also trying to make a lot of threat during his empowerment. Now I focus on survival - picking up orbs - but since I run with a guild I can trust them to manage threat sensibly.

Then again, going past Saurfang on a PUG would require something - in terms of patience and skill - that my realm can't manage most of the time. The only PUGS I have been on that have gone past Saurfang have been ones that feel like guild runs - people are willing to listen, to cooperate, to commit time, to wipe and to learn.
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Re: BC raid tank, haven't played in 2 years, just hit 80

Postby Torakka » Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:58 pm

Hi all,

I stopped playing about two years ago (Sarth 3D was end-game) and I'm now considering returning so my situation is somewhat similar to OP and thus I decided to use this topic instead of making a new one.
I used to tank in a pretty progressed guild (we killed KJ before 3.0) and did even contribute some research here and on official forums during early TBC (for example being one of the many to prove with screenshots that paladins can become uncrushable with HS. Yes, there was a doubt if it was possible in pre-Kara gear) so the general raiding and tanking stuff should be clear to me. I have also updated my knowledge of paladin skills, talents, glyphs and gearing (in 4.0) from the threads here in basic training and stickies at advanced training. I suppose I'm about as familiar with the class-mechanics as one can be without actually logging in (haven't re-activated my account yet as I've got a pile of work to do during this weekend).

However, I'm sure there are a lot of general things which I don't know. I'll list the ones I can easily think of, but would be more than pleased if you added and explained stuff I forgot or didn't even know has changed.

How does dual-speccing work and where to active it? Trainer I suppose?

As far as I know, the new LFG-tool allows unlimited heroics per day, as long as you queue to random one? Is that so and is there more to know?

You can now buy skill for faster flying (310%) and that skill is bought from flying trainers, i.e. Shadowmoon Valley, right?

Is skill to fly in old world available yet, or after Cata launch?

I used Ace-based addons back when I played with WowAceUpdater to keep them up to date (and later Curse's updater, when WowAce decided it couldn't cope
with increased load due auto-updater). Is Ace still used or has some other framework replaced it and is there any auto-updater which both works and doesn't infect my computer with spy-ware?

DBM, Omen, Grid, Power Auras and such seem to be still maintained and used. Is there now some other awesome or "mandatory" add-ons in addition to those which I should be aware of? (No, GearScore doesn't exactly count...)

I suppose my best bet in preparation for Cata would be to queue to random and daily heroics and tank, tank and tank some more. Then spend my justice points (r.i.p. badges) to get better than ilvl 213 tank gear and try some raids and those "new" ToC and ICC heroic 5-mans. Is there any reason to gather DPS gear prior to Cata? Also, any ideas to enhance aforementioned plan are welcome.


Thank you for your time,

Ezarioth, former tankadin on Ravencrest EU


P.S. I'm currently checking if my former guild has room for me, but should they say no, I'd be really interested in European, Alliance-side guild with two or three raid nights (preferably from 20 or 21 server time on) and, despite "casual" schedule, progression-focused attitude and skills to back it up.

P.P.S. Hi again, Mazater!
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Re: BC raid tank, haven't played in 2 years, just hit 80

Postby econ21 » Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:15 am

Torakka wrote:How does dual-speccing work and where to active it? Trainer I suppose?


Yes, trainer. It works very well - press a button and you are in your alternative spec (you lose all mana, but otherwise, it is quick).

As far as I know, the new LFG-tool allows unlimited heroics per day, as long as you queue to random one? Is that so and is there more to know?


Yes, first random of the day is more highly rewarded so often people would run one a day. That's less true now when all randoms give Justice Points - I think maybe with Cata heroics, the first of the day will give a few of the raid quality (Valor?) points.

You can now buy skill for faster flying (310%) and that skill is bought from flying trainers, i.e. Shadowmoon Valley, right?


I can't recall; also check out Honourhold. The Dalaran one may not give you a rep discount. The newest increase in flying speed (7%?) is rather modest btw; I have not noticed it and would not prioritise it.

Is skill to fly in old world available yet, or after Cata launch?


After launch.

DBM, Omen, Grid, Power Auras and such seem to be still maintained and used. Is there now some other awesome or "mandatory" add-ons in addition to those which I should be aware of? (No, GearScore doesn't exactly count...)


Yes, old school is fine.

I suppose my best bet in preparation for Cata would be to queue to random and daily heroics and tank, tank and tank some more. Then spend my justice points (r.i.p. badges) to get better than ilvl 213 tank gear and try some raids and those "new" ToC and ICC heroic 5-mans. Is there any reason to gather DPS gear prior to Cata? Also, any ideas to enhance aforementioned plan are welcome.


I would not prioritise gear (dps especially) at this stage - the reset with Cata will be enormous. Do get a PvP shield for 70 honour though - they rock. Drops from ICC 5-mans are good enough. I'd be tempted to bank the JPs for Cata gear. I'd work on your professions if they are not maxed out and perhaps even run dailies for gold to buy the new shinies after 7 December.
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