Beta build 12644 (July 30, 2010)

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Re: Beta build 12644 (July 30, 2010)

Postby Yelena » Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:16 pm

That wouldn't surprise me if Vindication's wording is simply Blizzard being ambiguous in the tooltip, they've been pretty notorious about it throughout the beta thus far.

Solely proccing off HW basically goes completely against the design intent of differentiating the tanking "modes". On the same token, so do multi-target attacks within our single-target rotation. But providing they keep the "smart targeting" AS and HotR have now, it's not really an issue.
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Re: Beta build 12644 (July 30, 2010)

Postby Arjuna » Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:40 pm

I get a lot of flak with my notion that AS will be used for pulling, but you have to remember that aoe threat will be much much smaller than it is now, a 3-target highdamage pull ability is awesome for getting those trashpacks to stick to you like glue. It takes a lot less effort to keep aggro than to get it back...

I mostly use it to pull still in heroics, because there is always that damn warrior or retri that starts off with a whirlwind/DS...and there will still be those morons in cata...
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Re: Beta build 12644 (July 30, 2010)

Postby Yelena » Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:03 pm

I usually leave the existing pack before its dead, and I know I have more than sufficient threat on it, and head to the next pack. In that case, I can usually run right up to the next pack and open with HotR as I face pull it. I've been using a trick spec & gear setup while running heroics lately anyway, as my Armory currently reflects as of this post, my AS only hits one target atm anyway.

Usually that's more than sufficient to ensure the idiot Fury Warriors don't rip mobs off of me in 4+ pulls, but in the event they do I have my Clique-bound Righteous Defense ready to taunt directly off of them on Grid, or the Clique-BoP ready on massive pulls.

With how current Heroics are designed, we can tailor how we pull and/or have plenty of tools to deal with idiots such that it doesn't necessitate the use of AS on every pull (or really any, for that matter).
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Re: Beta build 12644 (July 30, 2010)

Postby Meloree » Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:06 pm

Arjuna wrote:I get a lot of flak with my notion that AS will be used for pulling, but you have to remember that aoe threat will be much much smaller than it is now, a 3-target highdamage pull ability is awesome for getting those trashpacks to stick to you like glue. It takes a lot less effort to keep aggro than to get it back...

I mostly use it to pull still in heroics, because there is always that damn warrior or retri that starts off with a whirlwind/DS...and there will still be those morons in cata...


I still use it on basically every trash pull that it's up for. I still will in Cataclysm. It's pretty easy to get a feel for when a trash pull is going to end, and save AS if it's nearly over.
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Re: Beta build 12644 (July 30, 2010)

Postby Rasmfrackn » Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:01 pm

I don't have too much of a problem with HS and Inq being exclusive. At this point I think Inq is intended to just be our version of vigilance, in that a warrior OT will maintain some vengeance to boost their damage, and we'll get +30% holy damage, which, with CS as a staple of our rotation, is probably only a 10-15% boost en toto. Also, since RF is now affecting all damage and not just holy damage, I'd guess that it's also on the 2.07x multiplier (or whatever the warrior/bear mod is now) instead of the 2.717x multiplier, so boosting holy damage alone isn't necessarily as huge a threat gain as it would be on live.

Second, the interaction between AS being our largest damage (by far?) ability, pulling, and threat decay interest me. I would assume that threat decay is something that we worry about on bosses that take another 30+ seconds to die, and that we won't lose threat on something 3 seconds after we stop attacking it. In that scenario, I agree that a huge AS crit on a 5-man trash pull is probably enough to hold those 3 mobs until they die, or at least with a little maintenance. Maybe we'll want to use more AS damage to solidify, or maybe we'll want to save it for the next pull. I think that situationality is reasonable, even if it's not a real word.

-- Oh, and I love my "BAM!" macro that casts HoReckoning and AS in one press. If we had instant exorcism I'd put that in there too! If AS is up, it goes, if it's not, it's just taunt damage.

And may I say... taunt damage is ridiculously useful. I actually wish all the tanks got it. It's like sweet sweet honey in HoR where I just let the riflemen get heal aggro, then taunt them and that alone stays ahead of healing threat until everything else is dead. It's SO useful.
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