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Beta build 12644 (July 30, 2010)

SPOILERS Discussion about the Cataclysm Beta SPOILERS

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Re: Beta build 12644 (July 30, 2010)

Postby Gaffer » Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:18 pm

steadypal wrote:oh and it feels so WEIRD having AS hitting like a truck, 15k crits, while hotr is hitting for 3k lol... yes please, hmm wish i xferred with glyph of AS lol..


The standard test realm glyph vendor exists on beta and does sell Avenger's Shield glyphs. You can find him in the Dalaran glyph headquarters.
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Re: Beta build 12644 (July 30, 2010)

Postby steadypal » Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:30 pm

also, sacred duty needs a buff icon of some sorts to keep track of its usefulness
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Re: Beta build 12644 (July 30, 2010)

Postby Pizbit » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:49 pm

Must say the masteries listed up on mmo-champion are looking good.

Link to all masteries: http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/189 ... Blue-Posts

The tanking ones are all concerned with blocking or imitations of blocking. Unsure if listing the full details is a bit much copy/pasta so a quick review, DK's block-like-mechanic is based off Death Strike heals in to an absorb shield, druid's savage defense(that's the absorb shield on crit) increased by 32%, warrior 10% block and crit block 10%, paladin 16% block. The amount or chance is increased by mastery rating on gear.

An interesting twist, well not really since it is nor more than a balancing mechanism. The amount of actual mastery you get from rating varies per class.

Looks like we'll have a base 21% chance to block(5% base + 16% mastery), 36% chance to block with Holy Shield(when used with 3 HP correct? When they fix HP->Holy Shield anyway haha)

So it's official, Death Knights can now Block! I'm interested to see how that plays out, how often will a DK be death striking and how much will the the resulting absorb shield work for given roughly the same gear level and mastery rating as a Paladin etc?
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Re: Beta build 12644 (July 30, 2010)

Postby Darielle » Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:38 pm

steadypal wrote:tooltip must be bugged says 450%...



I believe the tooltip updates with talents such as Crusade. THe old 160% version updated to 240% with full talents, didn't it?
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Re: Beta build 12644 (July 30, 2010)

Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:50 pm

Feels like it needs to be posted here. Might see something like this in the build early next week.

As far as rotations go, something I mentioned in the live forums is we are trying letting Shield of the Righteous (or whatever we decide to call it) consume Holy Power for more damage *and* refresh Holy Shield. So you would need to get Holy Shield up, but then you could just use your shield hits instead. If you were ever in a position where you couldn't hit the boss, you could always fall back on just casting Holy Shield itself. We'll see how that feels.
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Re: Beta build 12644 (July 30, 2010)

Postby steadypal » Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:53 am

all i want is holy shield UP, and for us to be able to use ?SHIELD SLAM? to refresh holy shield, all while using OH SO SEXY inquisition...
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Re: Beta build 12644 (July 30, 2010)

Postby Gaffer » Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:04 am

steadypal wrote:all i want is holy shield UP, and for us to be able to use ?SHIELD SLAM? to refresh holy shield, all while using OH SO SEXY inquisition...


I would bet anything that they will never revert the current restrictions involving Holy Shield and Inquisition. Having both up is not their intention.
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Re: Beta build 12644 (July 30, 2010)

Postby steadypal » Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:35 am

why wouldnt it be? ret can have inquisition, and templars verdict and DS .. we have 1 use of holy power, and if shield slam will refresh it, hmm wonder what they'll do? every holy power will increase shield slam by X amount of dmg? but then that would mean, what, a MINIMUM of 12 sec CD on shield slam if we want it to do the most dmg,,, + GCD's and other abilities used of course..



OH and blizz PLEASE let hotr, and atleast judgment proc, or apply seal of truth,,, hmm atleast hotr, or multi mob tanking will be a night mare :P
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Re: Beta build 12644 (July 30, 2010)

Postby Yelena » Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:51 am

steadypal wrote:OH and blizz PLEASE let hotr, and atleast judgment proc, or apply seal of truth,,, hmm atleast hotr, or multi mob tanking will be a night mare :P

Not really any harder than it is for Warriors now, tabbing through mobs to sunder (Devastate) isn't that much of a chore. Seal of Cleave (and how it interacted with HotR) has done much to make Prot Paladins incredibly lazy (nearly as lazy as Druids) with regards to AoE tanking in Wrath.

Also take into consideration that most "perceived" AoE situations in Cataclysm are based on the experience of the current Wrath model. Most AoE across the board received a pretty heavy nerf, so the necessity to simply press one button and apply a dot to three targets may be less than it seems today. Between Consecration, Holy Wrath, Avenger's Shield, and the redesigned 'Chain Lightning' of the Righteous, we have plenty of useful/usable AoE tanking tools; it shouldn't require a whole lot of bandwidth on the user's part to tab through mobs to build up some additional threat if necessary.
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Re: Beta build 12644 (July 30, 2010)

Postby Arjuna » Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:09 am

Yelena wrote:
steadypal wrote:OH and blizz PLEASE let hotr, and atleast judgment proc, or apply seal of truth,,, hmm atleast hotr, or multi mob tanking will be a night mare :P

Not really any harder than it is for Warriors now, tabbing through mobs to sunder (Devastate) isn't that much of a chore. Seal of Cleave (and how it interacted with HotR) has done much to make Prot Paladins incredibly lazy (nearly as lazy as Druids) with regards to AoE tanking in Wrath.

Also take into consideration that most "perceived" AoE situations in Cataclysm are based on the experience of the current Wrath model. Most AoE across the board received a pretty heavy nerf, so the necessity to simply press one button and apply a dot to three targets may be less than it seems today. Between Consecration, Holy Wrath, Avenger's Shield, and the redesigned 'Chain Lightning' of the Righteous, we have plenty of useful/usable AoE tanking tools; it shouldn't require a whole lot of bandwidth on the user's part to tab through mobs to build up some additional threat if necessary.

...you know that thunderclap will spread bleeds in cata (don't know if it does it on live), so why not have hotr spread our "bleed"?
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Re: Beta build 12644 (July 30, 2010)

Postby Yelena » Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:17 am

We can also drop a persistent dot on the ground that lasts up to 45 seconds, whereas the Warrior "Conseclap" isn't necessarily going to make the cut, based on GC's comments.

Ghostcrawler wrote:We also tried Thunder Clap with a Consecrate-like talent, but I'm not sure we like that either.


Either way, it's too soon to act like the sky is falling with regards to AoE tanking. So yes, even with the Thunder Clap spreading Rend, we still have more multi-target tools than Warriors do.
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Re: Beta build 12644 (July 30, 2010)

Postby Arjuna » Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:46 am

Yelena wrote:We can also drop a persistent dot on the ground that lasts up to 45 seconds, whereas the Warrior "Conseclap" isn't necessarily going to make the cut, based on GC's comments.

Ghostcrawler wrote:We also tried Thunder Clap with a Consecrate-like talent, but I'm not sure we like that either.


Either way, it's too soon to act like the sky is falling with regards to AoE tanking. So yes, even with the Thunder Clap spreading Rend, we still have more multi-target tools than Warriors do.

I'm not acting like the sky is falling...just stating some facts...

And consecrations and bleeds are two different things entirely...

Lets see...
Paladins have:
AS(which we don't want to use because we'll need it for pulling the next group)
HW(which gets weaker the more mobs we cast it on)
Consecration
HotR
Reactive damage from HS

Warriors have:
Cleave
Revenge(which is limited by avoidance)
Thunderclap
Shockwave
Rend
Reactive damage from DS
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Re: Beta build 12644 (July 30, 2010)

Postby knaughty » Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:52 am

Grehn|Skipjack wrote:Feels like it needs to be posted here. Might see something like this in the build early next week.

As far as rotations go, something I mentioned in the live forums is we are trying letting Shield of the Righteous (or whatever we decide to call it) consume Holy Power for more damage *and* refresh Holy Shield. So you would need to get Holy Shield up, but then you could just use your shield hits instead. If you were ever in a position where you couldn't hit the boss, you could always fall back on just casting Holy Shield itself. We'll see how that feels.

That sounds pretty damn nice. The obvious implication is that we'd be able to put Holy Shield up with mana instead of Holy Power - since he's saying you can put HS up when you can't hit the boss - and if you can't hit the boss you have no Holy Power from CS.

HS, CS <filler>, CS <filler>, CS <filler> SHAZAM! - HS refesh plus shield through face.
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Re: Beta build 12644 (July 30, 2010)

Postby Arjuna » Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:57 am

knaughty wrote:
Grehn|Skipjack wrote:Feels like it needs to be posted here. Might see something like this in the build early next week.

As far as rotations go, something I mentioned in the live forums is we are trying letting Shield of the Righteous (or whatever we decide to call it) consume Holy Power for more damage *and* refresh Holy Shield. So you would need to get Holy Shield up, but then you could just use your shield hits instead. If you were ever in a position where you couldn't hit the boss, you could always fall back on just casting Holy Shield itself. We'll see how that feels.

That sounds pretty damn nice. The obvious implication is that we'd be able to put Holy Shield up with mana instead of Holy Power - since he's saying you can put HS up when you can't hit the boss - and if you can't hit the boss you have no Holy Power from CS.

HS, CS <filler>, CS <filler>, CS <filler> SHAZAM! - HS refesh plus shield through face.

/agree
sounds nice indeed :)
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Re: Beta build 12644 (July 30, 2010)

Postby Yelena » Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:01 am

Arjuna wrote:I'm not acting like the sky is falling...just stating some facts...

And consecrations and bleeds are two different things entirely... A dot is still a dot, whether it originates from the ground or from a bleed effect. Yes, the "consecrated dot-afflicted" targets can be moved out of the range of the consecrate, but the consecrated ground can also be relocated. End result is that both classes can maintain a persistent dot effect on multiple targets by pressing one button. In all fairness, Warriors have to press two buttons to initiate the process, where Paladins need only press one.

Lets see...
Paladins have:
AS(which we don't want to use because we'll need it for pulling the next group) Hits 3 targets.
HW(which gets weaker the more mobs we cast it on)
Consecration Not subject to AoE cap limitations.
HotR Hits 3 targets.
Reactive damage from HS
Reactive damage from Retribution Aura (yes, I know Warriors can get this too, but for the sake of fairness, we'll keep it restricted to abilities only the class can provide themselves).
Reactive damage from Eye for an Eye, if talented into it.

Warriors have:
Cleave Hits 2 targets
Revenge(which is limited by avoidance) Hits 2 targets (if talented)
Thunderclap
Shockwave Frontal cone, with a pretty narrow radius
Rend Can't really list this one separately as its "AoE effect" is a result of a talented Thunder Clap, so it would be an addendum to that item within this itemized list
Reactive damage from DS
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