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Ask a beta tester thread

SPOILERS Discussion about the Cataclysm Beta SPOILERS

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Re: Ask a beta tester thread

Postby steadypal » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:50 pm

why does prot still get touched by the light baseline? why cant they give us something instead of this, we dont need spellpower from str :P
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Re: Ask a beta tester thread

Postby Huon » Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:52 pm

steadypal wrote:why does prot still get touched by the light baseline? why cant they give us something instead of this, we dont need spellpower from str :P


I assume that its a way to make our healing spells scale, since they do so with spellpower, and not Attack power.

Could be wrong though... :?:
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Re: Ask a beta tester thread

Postby Arincia » Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:20 pm

Its because its the way to make our spells scale properly with melee stats and not be spellcaster tanks again like in TBC. Also almost all our abilities have a SP portion and AP portions to scale with. This was a way to let us tank/dps with using melee stats on gear.
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Re: Ask a beta tester thread

Postby Rasmfrackn » Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:35 pm

Arincia wrote:Its because its the way to make our spells scale properly with melee stats and not be spellcaster tanks again like in TBC. Also almost all our abilities have a SP portion and AP portions to scale with. This was a way to let us tank/dps with using melee stats on gear.


I think I posted this on the O forums too... they could just as easily give us more Str instead of SP if they just wanted to scale our abilities up a bit more without buffing Ret. It's the same effect so maybe they want us to have some healing oomph, but (almost) none of our spells are boosted by SP only. And, the ones that are SP only really shouldn't be. :) I just figure scaling Str instead of adding SP might be more intuitive.
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Re: Ask a beta tester thread

Postby steadypal » Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:42 pm

i feel we should get a BETTER baseline ability, only reason its there is for what? if we need to throw out a heal while we are tanking?? NO THANKS


if they really insist put it back as a deep deep talent that if we really really want it, we can take for HEALING,, just take out our sp coefficients for our abilities and MEH there we go... give us something cool,,, not spellpower for tanking...


baseline prot hotr,,, or shield slam, there you go... baseline block rating, change our mastery,,, ez. but spellpower, MEH
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Re: Ask a beta tester thread

Postby Yelena » Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:32 pm

We actually aren't getting straight up "spell power" from TbtL, we're getting a hybrid called "Holy Spell Power" (or some name of similar flavor) from the talent. The difference is that HSP won't affect healing, just damage.

Another way Blizzard is trying to keep Paladins more specialized within their respective trees.
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Re: Ask a beta tester thread

Postby Chicken » Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:03 am

It's also mostly just there as a flavor thing, they could achieve the same thing by just messing around with the speed at which various abilities of ours scale with attack power, but the whole mixing spell with attack power thing is just something that's part of the class by now.

It's also not preventing us from getting the same stamina benefits and such as the other tanks get.
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Re: Ask a beta tester thread

Postby theckhd » Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:50 am

I believe it's mostly a balancing factor between specs. If you look only at Prot, there's no difference between:
  • The current system that converts Str to SP
  • Removing the Str->SP conversion and just boosting the AP scaling coefficient of spells by the appropriate factor

However if they did #2, then those spells would also scale much better for Ret, which is a potential balancing problem. By keeping TbtL, it gives them another independent knob to tweak that only affects Prot. Prot damage too high? Drop TbtL to 50%. Too low? Boost it to 70%. Ret remains unaffected.
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Re: Ask a beta tester thread

Postby Rasmfrackn » Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:50 am

theckhd wrote:I believe it's mostly a balancing factor between specs. If you look only at Prot, there's no difference between:
  • The current system that converts Str to SP
  • Removing the Str->SP conversion and just boosting the AP scaling coefficient of spells by the appropriate factor

However if they did #2, then those spells would also scale much better for Ret, which is a potential balancing problem. By keeping TbtL, it gives them another independent knob to tweak that only affects Prot. Prot damage too high? Drop TbtL to 50%. Too low? Boost it to 70%. Ret remains unaffected.

Right. There are too many skill overlaps between Prot and Ret (where too many is now CS and judgement... maybe consecrate) to actually adjust coefficients. But, it's not like there's any functional difference between them scaling our Str directly or giving us "HSP" that affects damage spellpower but not healing spellpower. It's just... weird. If they don't want us casting heals with any potency, just skip the spellpower, and fix whichever spells are stuck with only spellpower scaling, i.e. holy wrath apparently.

Of course, they still give Ret Sheathe too, and they took the FoL proc away from Art of War, so... I have no idea what they're thinking. I don't see any reason to give either spec a Str->SP conversion anymore, which would free them up to rebalance the coefficients for everything pretty much independently. Holy has spellpower via int, Prot and Ret have attack power via Str, and never the twain need meet, imo. If they don't want Prot and Ret healing, it's really simple to divest them from spellpower entirely.

-- And at that point, they COULD just adjust coefficients instead of giving us huge amounts of "bonus damage" from strength/AP directly in the form of spellpower.
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Re: Ask a beta tester thread

Postby Gamingdevil » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:53 am

Tev wrote:I know they wanted to get away from stats that have a cap, like hit, once you reach 100%, no point in having more. All other stats as far I can think either can be staced infinitely for added benefit, or the cap is not reachable.


On the contrary. I'm quite sure they mentioned that hit is an interesting stat, because you're "juggling" around the cap. You shouldn't have too little, but there's no benefit in having too much.
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Re: Ask a beta tester thread

Postby steadypal » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:06 am

most important question... how do you train?
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Re: Ask a beta tester thread

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:10 am

steadypal wrote:most important question... how do you train?


you don't because trainers are broken! haHA!
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Re: Ask a beta tester thread

Postby steadypal » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:16 am

so you guys tanking with seal of right atm, and waiting for trainers to get fixed to learn the tanking seal? or did u drop a profession like im hearing you must do?
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Re: Ask a beta tester thread

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:31 am

steadypal wrote:so you guys tanking with seal of right atm, and waiting for trainers to get fixed to learn the tanking seal? or did u drop a profession like im hearing you must do?


Um, what do you mean "tanking seal"? When I logged on, I had 4 spells available on the trainer: Seal of Righteousness, Divine Light, Word of Glory, and Parry. I'm tanking using Seal of Truth (renamed Seal of Vengeance) which was still in my book. Not being able to Parry sucks.
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Re: Ask a beta tester thread

Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:21 pm

Least you got Seal of Truth. All my Paladin has is Insight.
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