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Multiple Conc w/ Hallowed Ground?

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Re: Multiple Conc w/ Hallowed Ground?

Postby Loras » Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:49 am

Zacharia wrote:
Loras wrote:Maybe it didn't tick for 150 on lvl 30 (metaphor, btw), but 350% decrease is dumb (repeating, dumb with 'how' they do it, not the reason 'why' they do it, the reason is fine).

Metaphor -> Hyperbole

350% decrease is dumb, why? You give no reason. Your post is dumb.


Surely my reasons are better than attacking people's posts just for the sake of it, ey? If you don't have anything to contribute to the topic, please feel free to stay out of it.

@Chicken - yes, that's a possible logic you provide there, but if we think realistically - do we really think trash will stay alive for 45 seconds to benefit from the full consecration duration (or the boss will remain static) :)

I'm probably not explaining why I feel it's dumb well enough, can't find the right words.

Ok, let's give another example - how would people feel if from level 80-85 they DOWNscaled all of our dmg and health (together with mob's health and damage) by 50%? Instead of doing hypothetical 10k crits and mobs having 10-15k hp in Northrend, when Cata hits, we get 5k crits, mobs having 7.5k average hp. Sure, nothing changes in the way how things will work, they'll die with the same speed. But won't you feel awkward? "Hi, guise, That's why I think it's dumb.

If the reason for dropping down Consec damage in order for us to have harder times keeping aggro in multimob situations --> dpsers not being able to fully AoE nuke since they will draw aggro, then an example of a solution would be to just keep the numbers we have now on live (with some slight scaling up from 80-85), but increase the threat modifiers of AoE spells by a lot. The damage will be there, but you just won't be able to use it like you do now. It's actually a bit broken solution :D But... at least slightly less dumb :lol:
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Re: Multiple Conc w/ Hallowed Ground?

Postby hoho » Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:55 am

Loras wrote:Ok, let's give another example - how would people feel if from level 80-85 they DOWNscaled all of our dmg and health (together with mob's health and damage) by 50%?
From what I've heard they pretty much have done that, except for the mob HP lowering. I do know L81 will be doing significantly lower damage than at 80 while wearing the same gear and that's not only due to lower crit/haste/hit.
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Re: Multiple Conc w/ Hallowed Ground?

Postby Loras » Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:24 am

With tanks with vengeance mashing 20-30k shield slam crits, I doubt it's the case
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Re: Multiple Conc w/ Hallowed Ground?

Postby Flex » Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:33 am

We're also getting a snap AOE threat ability and in general all AoE attacks are getting gutted. As I posted elsewhere if dungeon design doesn't require single target nuking and CC simply making AOEing a poor way to clear them by reducing AOE damage is a dumb way to do it.
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Re: Multiple Conc w/ Hallowed Ground?

Postby Loras » Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:41 pm

Flex wrote:As I posted elsewhere if dungeon design doesn't require single target nuking and CC simply making AOEing a poor way to clear them by reducing AOE damage is a dumb way to do it.


Aaaaah, thank you, thank you for finding the right words to explain my thoughts on why I find that change dumb :) That's exactly what I had in mind.
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Re: Multiple Conc w/ Hallowed Ground?

Postby Huon » Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:11 pm

Flex wrote: As I posted elsewhere if dungeon design doesn't require single target nuking and CC simply making AOEing a poor way to clear them by reducing AOE damage is a dumb way to do it.


How would you go about doing it then?

I haven't done any long term thinking on it, but to me, you only have 2-3 choices to reduce AoE in instances:

- Reduce the effectiveness of AoE.
or
- Increase the mob's HP.
or
- Make the mobs hit/heal so hard that CC is required not to kill the tank.

Either way, it gets the job done. I don't see how its dumb at all. But they definitely used option 1 and 3 so far. They made mobs hard to AoE in certain instances. Throne of tides has nasty healers. First pull of the place has 2 healers and 2 melee dps mobs. Not hard in theory...

Story time: I KID YOU NOT. I had THREE shamans in my pug, THREE. And that pull took 4-5 minutes. The healers kept healing, no one was shocking. People are really going to need to learn to play again. (/cheer)
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Re: Multiple Conc w/ Hallowed Ground?

Postby Flex » Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:28 pm

Huon wrote:How would you go about doing it then?

I haven't done any long term thinking on it, but to me, you only have 2-3 choices to reduce AoE in instances:

- Reduce the effectiveness of AoE.
or
- Increase the mob's HP.
or
- Make the mobs hit/heal so hard that CC is required not to kill the tank.


A combination of 1 and 3. Reduce effectiveness of AoE through both outgoing damage and mana cost. Make mobs a pain in the ass, healers heal for more more often, and more "teamwork" in mob packs, like Captains that buff the damage of those around them.
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Re: Multiple Conc w/ Hallowed Ground?

Postby Guldylohx » Mon Aug 09, 2010 1:52 pm

Flex wrote:
Huon wrote:How would you go about doing it then?

I haven't done any long term thinking on it, but to me, you only have 2-3 choices to reduce AoE in instances:

- Reduce the effectiveness of AoE.
or
- Increase the mob's HP.
or
- Make the mobs hit/heal so hard that CC is required not to kill the tank.


A combination of 1 and 3. Reduce effectiveness of AoE through both outgoing damage and mana cost. Make mobs a pain in the ass, healers heal for more more often, and more "teamwork" in mob packs, like Captains that buff the damage of those around them.


I like the teamwork idea the best. Another idea would be to make a caster type that channels a stacking enrage buff onto a melee type, which after a few stacks it'll kill the tank in a matter of 15-20 seconds even with spam heals.

Or even just a caster type that "empowers" the others of it's group specific to their mob type. Rogue-y type mobs that interrupt casters often, Warrior-y types that -75% Mortal Strike tanks, Lock-y mobs that chain DoT, healers that apply HoTs and direct heal in the same breath, etc.

Or a combo where one mob applies a debuff which is consumed by another mob to apply a really nasty debuff. Think a bleed effect which is consumed to apply a stronger bleed or a ticking mana/rage/energy/focus burn effect.

Or a mob that drops a resource generating totem, which feeds another mob that chain casts a seed of corruption type spell. To kick this up a notch, have the seed of corruptions apply new seeds upon detonation.

I'm seeing a lot of ideas here... not just in combos, but in spell ideas that would recommend shutting down or focusing the mob.
(Heh, realized how awkwardly I had phrased a couple parts)
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