TPS Threat on Trash

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TPS Threat on Trash

Postby towelliee » Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:52 pm

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... =Towelliee

I was told by Officers in my new guild that I am having trouble on trash and my tps is low.

Few notes

1 - I just joined a 11/12 HM 25 on Farm guild
2 - Their DPS greatly out gears me not to mention the scaling of the DPS buff in ICC
3 - I spec into DS DG

Changes I'm looking to make

1 - 3/5 Reck
2 - Seal of Command

Could this possibly be just dps going all out and out gearing me?

I mean should I go back to 2% threat glove enchant?
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Re: TPS Threat on Trash

Postby lythac » Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:30 pm

SoC for me has always been worth losing a point in conviction. In a guild working on LK Heroic I can't see you being able to pick up 3/5 reckoning.

What gear do you wear for trash?

1) Trinkets, both of your sta trinkets are wasted on trash use your ret trinkets.
2) Do you have a 264 2.6 DPS weapon you can use?
3) If you have kept some of your old 264 tanking gear, if gemmed and enchanted with str they outstrip your current pieces.
4) DPS gear, think you should be able to reaplce a couple of pieces of prot gear with 264 ret gear.

Just make sure you keep uncrittable and a reasonable health pool. Just remember to swap back to main gear before getting to a boss.
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Re: TPS Threat on Trash

Postby lythac » Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:40 pm

Theck has a post in his TPS thread found here - 3.3 AoE Round-Up.

Theckd wrote:For trash gearing, Expertise (to 24) > Hit (to 6%) > STR

Theckd wrote:This means that as far as gearing goes, for AoE trash clears you should aim to hit the expertise soft cap, and then the melee hit cap. Keep in mind that these caps are lower for trash - it's 6% melee hit and 6% dodge/parry, which is 197 hit rating and 24 expertise.


So looking at your current hit and exp you don't have much room to improve there from your normal gear. So any ret gear you do equip that has hit or exp has to replace a piece with hit or exp already and have higher str to make it worthwhile (which is why you can't go throwing on 245 ret gear. It does re-emphasize quite how good trinket swapping is is your have a str or AP based trinket (DMC:V or Death's Choice).
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Re: TPS Threat on Trash

Postby majiben » Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:38 am

Are you running partial dps gear (especially trinkets) on trash? If you're willing to keep stacks of glyphs on you, the Holy wrath Gylph is effective for getting things stuck to you in ICC if you see them about to run off. Berserking to an spare weapon too works for safer trash and from my understanding, even if you can't use any of the hit TAIJ is th best threat trinket out there (dunno for trash).
Last edited by majiben on Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TPS Threat on Trash

Postby Pala » Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:07 pm

I've had a lot of fun lately using either Last Word 264 or Bloodvenom Blade 264 on trash along with my DMC:G and Herkuml War Token. Last night on my 10 man I was hitting 16k tps on trash packs. I was also using it on 25s and the trash is still not a big deal. The Blood Wing characters that put a bleed on you make it tricky but you are already with well geared healers so it should still be okay.

I was using Seal of Vengeance too for the 200 strength libram proc, with 100 strength from Last Word, and 90+ occasional strength from DMC:G. I also use my hit cap gear on the trash with the 264 tier gloves with the threat enchant. I really like DS/DG since it is independent of Forbearance. I can pop my wings and if I need a cooldown I use DS/DG. Those are my experiences and I wish you good luck with yours.
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Re: TPS Threat on Trash

Postby Amaranthea » Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:17 am

Slow weapon (heroic bloodvenom blade is what I use) + command + dps trinkets + 2T10 + hit/expertise cap (lower for trash than bosses, of course)

I wouldn't bother with reckoning.
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Re: TPS Threat on Trash

Postby theckhd » Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:32 am

Actually, Reckoning is at its best on trash. Many incoming attacks translates to high uptime, which combined with SoCom can almost double your seal damage.

It's not necessary, of course, but if you're going to have a trash-specific spec, there's no reason not to grab it instead of DS/DG. I ran two prot specs for most of ICC, with the only difference being those 3 points.
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Re: TPS Threat on Trash

Postby towelliee » Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:13 pm

SO tonight's scenerio

Halion 10 HM:

Taking portal for Phase 3. I am tanking Halion up top. I grab him start my rotaion I get low. Holy Paladin with RF LOH's me and he pulls threat. I am not sure what is going on. I mean he is in full 277 Tier and gear. Not sure what to do anymore for TPS. This has never happened to me.
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Re: TPS Threat on Trash

Postby Rhiannon » Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:49 pm

Well, say the LoH crits and hits for 50k effective healing. 50k * 0.5 * 0.5 * 2.57 = 32.1k threat. Depending how soon he had to LoH you, that's quite feasible to pull aggro with. Edit: actually crit heals are +50% without prot talents aren't they, so a 50k loh from a holy paladin's a bit high, but still.

It'd probably be a hard sell to your guild if they're used to doing it this way, but there's really no reason for the tank who's outside in phase 3 to ever go inside in phase 2, and if you don't go inside then when Halion spawns outside in phase 3 your threat from phase 1 is intact, rather than wiped.

If your guild insist on doing it this way then I guess either run a survival CD so you don't require an LoH when he's got no threat, or pre-HoP your healer, or glyph avenger's shield.
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Re: TPS Threat on Trash

Postby theckhd » Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:05 am

I've been thinking about this since you mentioned it on AIM last night, and it still seems weird to me. 30-50k threat is not a whole lot to overcome. If you consider an average attack of about 4k holy damage (10k threat), it should take you 3 or 4 GCDs to cover that gap. Less if you pop AW, and almost trivial if you're getting MD's and/or TotT.

So my advice is:
Make sure that there's a hunter/rogue assigned to MD/Tricks you during the transition
Pop shield wall and/or an Indestructible pot so that your healer doesn't have to LoH you.
Make sure you use HoReck proactively for the 3-second fixate (if you're not using it to pull for the extra damage)

Or use the trick that Rhiannon mentioned, if it still works.
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Re: TPS Threat on Trash

Postby towelliee » Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:40 pm

Maybe I am a new tank their just not use to MD'ing me I dunno. Is it possible if the Paladin is in Melee range enough healing can cause huge amounts of aggro.
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Re: TPS Threat on Trash

Postby Dantriges » Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:47 pm

Well it´s 110% aggro needed to go over tank aggro instead of 130%.
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Re: TPS Threat on Trash

Postby PsiVen » Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:09 pm

I'm not sure how hard Halion hits on hardmode, but I noticed pugging 25-man on my druid that the tanks going into the phase 2 transition were always low, and a swiftmend crit would rip aggro if they weren't fast enough. You should be responsible for preventing that sort of thing, but I don't think you can prevent a paladin LoHing you with RF up from being a problem. Cooldown it if you expect nasty damage on the transitions.

Even if you're getting TPS troubles, I wouldn't cut 2/2 PoJ for an extra 1% crit. That's just going to slow you down on trash. Odds are the DPS you're running with are going nuts on trash, blowing out the AoE as hard as possible. But aside from the officers telling you it's a problem, have you noticed people pulling aggro or getting killed on trash pulls?
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Re: TPS Threat on Trash

Postby Fivelives » Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:32 pm

Dantriges wrote:Well it´s 110% aggro needed to go over tank aggro instead of 130%.


110% for people within 20 yards of the mob, 130% for people farther than 20 yards away.
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Re: TPS Threat on Trash

Postby Treck » Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:46 pm

There is no way to justify having a primary specc that includes "lesser" talents for the case of having more threat on trash.
Trash is trash for that reason, noone cares about it. If people want fast and easy trash just throw every damn single Tott/MD onto one tank, and heal him to death. Noone will overaggro, even if the tank puts out 0 threat himself. Works well even on Bloodprince trash, Have one tank MD/tott all the time and even if he is tanking while having 2x sap up most of the time, he can keep threat and people wont die. Make sure you really spamm heal the tank tho.
I run with 2x protspeccs for the simple reason of making trash and trash bosses easier and more of a breeze. But really all you "want" or need is SoCommand. But your guild should focus on how you do on bosses, not trash.

If your worried on trash "tps" slap on some retri parts or whatever, they can hardly complain on you beeing "badly" geared for it seeing how low gear you need nowadays anyway, and if they do, remind them that its trash.

If you always get to tank, and enjoy it, i suggest you grab a 2nd prot specc. Then you can have trashglyphs there aswell to make it even easier. If not, dont gimp your maintanking specc to be "good" at both, be the best you can where it matters.
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