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MT Healing Threat Ceiling on Tidewalker

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MT Healing Threat Ceiling on Tidewalker

Postby Saffire » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:51 am

I'd like some input from anyone who has tested this out.

On Tidewalker we use the out of tomb range, heal the warlock to gain threat strategy.

We are running into our Warrior MT dying from taking crushes and an innadequate stream of heals because of the fear of getting healing aggro.

What is everyones experience with the threat ceiling.

Mathmatically speaking ...

Im dropping 4284 avg Holy Lights on him 3 consecutively with no overheal, around 30% overheal, then around 60%.

If 2 points of healing equals 1 point of threat. And with RF active i gain 190% normal threat. That means 1.1 points of healing generats 1 point of threat.

My heals in succession should be generating....

Est of Time Post Murloc Spawn
=============================
1sec: 3824 Accumulated Threat Assuming no Overheal.
4Sec: 6118 Accumulated Threat Assuming 30% Overheal.
7Sec: 7265 Accumulated Threat Assuming 60% Overheal.

Healers with Salvation would have to be individually effectively healing the following amount of health in the same timeframe to match my threat....

1sec: 10.3k
4sec: 16.5k
7sec: 19.6k

Even eating repeated Crushes I dont see that it is probably since overhealing doesnt generate threat for the MT healers to pull aggro from my bombs on the warlock. I think Id find that my best healers would ride right below the threshhold and the subpar healers would be far from it.

Am I missing something obvious here?

Is there any real danger of the MT healers pulling healing aggro on the murlocs if they are only healing the MT? Or are only the raid healers in danger of AE heals.
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Postby YoYoMa » Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:06 pm

A druid tank is better than a warrior for this fight. The damage will be less spikey and you'll be safer during the murloc spawns since you can hold back.

But to answer your question, the only issue we ever had from healing aggro during the murloc spawns was from the shammy that was doing chain heals. Those were overpowering my heals on the lock. We basically said for him to hold off for a few seconds after the murlocs spawn to give me enough time to pop at least 2 HLs on the warlock before he started healing again. That was enough and we've never had an issue since.
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Postby Saffire » Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:00 am

Just thought I would report back on this for anyone else who may be having problems keeping the MT up while you as a paladin off-tank.

Last night we told our healers specifically to continue healing as normal duirng the transition. Drop bombs do whatever you need to do to keep the tank alive.

The only stipulation was no group heals for 6 seconds after the murloc warning.

Threat was never an issue they never even looked twice at anone but me. Main tank never faultered below 85% health even while taking 19 crushing blows through out the fight.

Had substituded in healing pants and healing ring and sacrificed some avoidance had my +healing at just barely below 600 in tank gear with those two pieces.
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Re: MT Healing Threat Ceiling on Tidewalker

Postby Stylaan » Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:04 am

Saffire wrote:If 2 points of healing equals 1 point of threat. And with RF active i gain 190% normal threat. That means 1.1 points of healing generats 1 point of threat.


Paladin healing modifier is 0.25 threat per point healed, so it'd actually be 4 healing per point of threat.

Something about not letting us heal-tank or something. Because that's a seriously OP part of our class /sarcasm.

Just ask your healers not to do any aoe heals, not to heal anyone except the MT (and you once you get the murlocs) and they should be fine.

The only issue happens is if one healer is a lot better than others and consistently gets 5k bombs timed perfectly, but usually there's a good distribution of healing threat from all your healers over all the murlocs.
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Postby Crusherus » Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:03 am

I just ask that the raid healers do single target spot healing only. Once the last of the murlocs enter my concecrate, I let them go back to group heals.

Chances of one of your MT healers getting aggro from those murlocs is slim to nil. I was lazy and just tossed 2 full rank holy light's on that warlock with my block/threat gear. +400 spell damage/healing and the murlocs always went straight for me.

Just make sure the raid understands to NOT heal your warlock... we wiped once because our tree druid topped off the warlock for me... :(
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Postby jere » Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:26 am

Crusherus wrote:Just make sure the raid understands to NOT heal your warlock... we wiped once because our tree druid topped off the warlock for me... :(


QFT lol...I so hate this and it happens every single time lol
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Postby gwayne » Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:01 am

Crusherus wrote:Just make sure the raid understands to NOT heal your warlock... we wiped once because our tree druid topped off the warlock for me... :(


Still the question of why a warlock? You could be using those holy lights to heal the holy paladins in the raid... This saves healer mana, gives mana back to the healadins and generates the same amount of aggro. Unless of course you are healing for more than the 5k damage each of them will take from earthquake...
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Postby adese » Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:24 am

gwayne wrote:
Crusherus wrote:Just make sure the raid understands to NOT heal your warlock... we wiped once because our tree druid topped off the warlock for me... :(


Still the question of why a warlock? You could be using those holy lights to heal the holy paladins in the raid... This saves healer mana, gives mana back to the healadins and generates the same amount of aggro. Unless of course you are healing for more than the 5k damage each of them will take from earthquake...


Because warlocks have a self buff that increases the healing done to them. Combine that with BoL, and you can get some pretty nice heals off. Plus, the warlocks can life tap to ensure that they have plenty of health that needs healing - if the holy pally was full before the earthquake, that's only 3-5k damage that needs healing (or none, if they resisted it).
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Postby Gerilith » Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:26 am

adese wrote:
gwayne wrote:Because warlocks have a self buff that increases the healing done to them. Combine that with BoL, and you can get some pretty nice heals off. Plus, the warlocks can life tap to ensure that they have plenty of health that needs healing - if the holy pally was full before the earthquake, that's only 3-5k damage that needs healing (or none, if they avoided it).

/fixed ;)
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Postby Rehlachs- » Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:29 am

Warlocks get 20% more heal -> 20% more healing thread. Furthermore Warlocks are able to use Life Tap to avoid overhealing.

edit: I'm way too slow..
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Postby gwayne » Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:40 am

Rehlachs- wrote:Warlocks get 20% more heal -> 20% more healing thread. Furthermore Warlocks are able to use Life Tap to avoid overhealing.


Its a good theory but still... I'm clearly living in a strange world where 3-5k of damage to heal = 0 overheal :P I'd just prefer to heal the damage that is already there rather than create more. The healers already have enough to do in this fight. I guess having light and salv on everyone helps though as far as my threat goes.
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Postby Warrender » Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:42 am

gwayne wrote:Its a good theory but still... I'm clearly living in a strange world where 3-5k of damage to heal = 0 overheal :P I'd just prefer to heal the damage that is already there rather than create more. The healers already have enough to do in this fight. I guess having light and salv on everyone helps though as far as my threat goes.


Another reason for using a dedicated Warlock target is that this strat usually involves placing the tankadin out of Grave range which also takes him out of heal range of most of the others in the raid. The designated Warlock stands by the Paladin and his sole job is to lifetap down enough so that 2 Holy Lights will heal him to full without any overhealing and assist with AOE'ing the Murlocs.
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Postby Rehlachs- » Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:56 am

Your critical heals will not avail and actually.. sometimes your targets might get healed by another brain-afk healer leading to unnecessary losses.
The murlocs need about 8 seconds to get to the raid (depending on your strategy) and 2-2.5 seconds spent in overheal or an canceled heal thanks to overzealous healers is wasted time.

Some healers tend to go into berzerk-healing-mode after an earthquake and I for myself sometimes had troubles getting aggro from them before they got tenerized.

Healing other paladins instead of warlocks works fine, too. But healing warlocks is way more secure due to the given healing bonus and their ability to loose hp on command.
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Postby adese » Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:41 am

gwayne wrote:
Rehlachs- wrote:Warlocks get 20% more heal -> 20% more healing thread. Furthermore Warlocks are able to use Life Tap to avoid overhealing.


Its a good theory but still... I'm clearly living in a strange world where 3-5k of damage to heal = 0 overheal :P I'd just prefer to heal the damage that is already there rather than create more. The healers already have enough to do in this fight. I guess having light and salv on everyone helps though as far as my threat goes.


When I do this fight, and I'm tanking the murlocs, I can generally get 2 (sometimes 3) Holy Lights off before they get to me. In the set that I use for that fight (with about 550 healing, iirc) my Holy Lights hit for about 3k, 4k crit (I think). Assuming a Holy Pally takes 5k damage from the earthquake (and they were full before that), I only get ~1.5 Holy Lights worth of threat before the murlocs get to the raid (in the worst case). I get much more threat by healing the warlocks than by healing a (full) holy paladin.

This doesn't mean that I will only heal a warlock when the murlocs are coming. If another healer tops them off, or they are out of range or something, I'll quickly look for someone else to heal so I can get some aggro on the murlocs. I just prefer to heal a warlock if at all possible.
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Postby gwayne » Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:50 am

Well I've only killed him once so I'll give the warlock thing a try if we can actually get any warlocks to raid in our guild... :P

If you are out of grave range surely this puts the murlocs a fair amount of distance away from the rest of the raid. We were all grouped up right behind morogrim at the entrance to the north hall. This meant aoe could hit morogrim as well as the murlocs. It was a bit of a pain if I got watery grave but usually just meant a crazy run back to the raid with the murlocs chasing me around.
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