DK blood dps

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DK blood dps

Postby daemonym » Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:57 am

I'm going to running icc on my dk soon and do not want to be a DW spec on sindragosa if I can avoid it. Unfortunately the blood dps thread on EJ seems to have disappeared so I come to you my fellow paladins. Here's a link to what I'm running with atm: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#jfVMqh0IcrofostZfMbhxc:pGL

My gear barely has any armor pen on it (only like 20%) and I'm using the 2h from heroic pit, the rest of my gear is all i245 and up. The sad part is my dps on a training dummy is over 1k below my frost spec. I know dummy dps isn't a great measurement tool, but over a thousand difference is enough to cause concern. As frost I hover around 5200+ but as blood I can only break 4k when I use all my CD's otherwise it's only about a steady 3800.

Here's the basic rotation I'm using which I think is the culprit/ I'm running with glyph of disease as I'm soooo used to it that I can't run without it. It totally screws me up when I try any dk rotation.

IT - PS - DS - HS - HS - pest - dump

DS - HS - HS - HS - HS - dump

I find myself constantly flooded with runic power, even more than frost, without enough gcd's to use it all due to the HS spam. Is that normal or should I just be using death strike and ignoring the death runes.

Thanks in advance.
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Re: DK blood dps

Postby Levantine » Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:18 am

Frost dps is higher anyway at this point in time, and the RP generation is about the same but you have so many more opportunities to spend it as Frost. It doesn't matter so much since a Blood's Death Coil is pretty weak anyway. (What I think I'm trying to say is yes you're going to be RP capped most of the time, no it doesn't matter, HS > DC anyway.)

Blood is going to be just as gimped as Frost on Sindragosa if not more so due to it being a lower DPS spec than either Frost or Unholy. I honestly wouldn't worry about swapping from frost, but if you really have to I'd recommend Unholy over Blood by a long shot.

Anyway, the rotation seems okay. You say you're using the GoD so I'm assuming that your real rotation is actually:

Pest - HS - HS - HS - DS
DS - HS- HS - HS - HS

Or something along those lines (I'm ever so rusty on the exact order of the strikes).
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Re: DK blood dps

Postby Shoju » Fri Jun 11, 2010 6:32 am

I don't like blood DPS, so I can't give you a lot of pointers, but I compared your talent build to that of a Blood Death Knight that I know personally (former guildie) and the talent spec is different. I don't know if the 1 extra point in worms is going to make a huge difference or not, as I'm not sure what kind of dps the worms account for.

This is his build, and if you want, you can check out his gear.

You will also note in his gear that he is gemmed full armor pen, and currently sits precipitously close to the armor pen cap, which according to most DK's is the most important aspect of maximizing your DPS as blood.
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Re: DK blood dps

Postby Levantine » Fri Jun 11, 2010 6:38 am

Builds are both the same except for utility talents, really. He's taken 3/3 Bloodworms and 1/2 IBP over Rune Tap and Vampiric Blood. Bloodworms are such a minuscule DPS increase that Blood Tap might well be worth it if he goes splat every now and then.

You're right about the ArP thing, you really want to be flirting with the soft cap at the very very least to even attempt Blood. Otherwise it just falls further and further behind the other two specs.

Teeny nitpick: As far as I know, you friend would be better served by swapping Metas to Agi/Crit, using one Nightmare tear to activate and swapping the other Puissant to a Fractured. I doubt it'd be a big increase, but I'm 99% sure it would work out to be one.

Actually, it's probably a wash if the DK agi -> Crit ratio is as bad as I seem to remember it being. (It's 21 crit vs. 31 agi and 6 str)
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Re: DK blood dps

Postby Shoju » Fri Jun 11, 2010 7:38 am

Levantine wrote:Builds are both the same except for utility talents, really. He's taken 3/3 Bloodworms and 1/2 IBP over Rune Tap and Vampiric Blood. Bloodworms are such a minuscule DPS increase that Blood Tap might well be worth it if he goes splat every now and then.

You're right about the ArP thing, you really want to be flirting with the soft cap at the very very least to even attempt Blood. Otherwise it just falls further and further behind the other two specs.

Teeny nitpick: As far as I know, you friend would be better served by swapping Metas to Agi/Crit, using one Nightmare tear to activate and swapping the other Puissant to a Fractured. I doubt it'd be a big increase, but I'm 99% sure it would work out to be one.

Actually, it's probably a wash if the DK agi -> Crit ratio is as bad as I seem to remember it being. (It's 21 crit vs. 31 agi and 6 str)


I asked him about the meta, and he said that it was pretty close to a wash, and since the guild he joined is now working on some of the harder hard modes, he felt 'more comfortable' going with a few dps less (I want to say it was..... <20dps?) to have a little more health for some of the raid damage.

I wasn't sure about bloodworms. I had a blood spec from 68-72 so that I could solo out a bunch of TBC group quests to level my enchanting to 350. If it is miniscule, then I would probably take the utility.

Yeah, Arp is the goal for blood. If you aren't at the soft cap, or can't gem up to the soft cap, I would stay frost. The idea that frost is in some way further gimped on Sindragosa compared to Enhance shaman and rogues is false. Honestly, Frost is probably a the safest 1h'd dw spec as you are going to be packing more HP than a Rogue or shaman (typically due to plate carrying more stamina in general) AND you don't have Slice and Dice like a rogue (not sure if this is used, or a further detriment. I have played my rogue in any capacity except Transmute monkey and personal GB butler in a very veyr long time)
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Re: DK blood dps

Postby Vorianloken » Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:46 am

You don't have slice and dice but you do have icy talons.
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Re: DK blood dps

Postby Shoju » Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:35 am

Vorianloken wrote:You don't have slice and dice but you do have icy talons.


True I did forget about the personal part of that.
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Re: DK blood dps

Postby Kelaan » Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:12 am

daemonym wrote:IT - PS - DS - HS - HS - pest - dump
DS - HS - HS - HS - HS - dump

I find myself constantly flooded with runic power, even more than frost, without enough gcd's to use it all due to the HS spam. Is that normal or should I just be using death strike and ignoring the death runes.


That's the rotation I use. It's normal. :) The only thing you can spend runic power on is Death Coil ... and every other strike hits for more damage. Since you're pretty much GCD-locked, I find myself using death coil almost never, and nearly never am able to dump runic power, in favor of either refreshing diseases (normally PS/IT, rather than Pestilencing it with glyph of disease) or death|heart striking away.

Edit:
I'm curious why not go unholy -- it seems to be all the rage these days. Moreover it (and Frost) are more spell-oriented than Blood is, so you might be able to alter your rotation to use spells while the Chilled stack falls off.
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Re: DK blood dps

Postby blakk » Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:24 am

this is what i would go with if i used glyph of disease (i hate that glyph tbh) http://www.wowhead.com/talent#jfVMVh0Isfof0stZfMbhxc:pGI
i've found blood to be the spec with by far the least used runic power and the least damage from a runic power ability so why glyph for it if it's rarely used? remember actually use IT+PS whenever you use DRW so you have 4 diseases up for a little bit.

EDIT: also i've done sindra as frost and unholy and the stacking was not an issue as either. there are enough breaks to not have to worry unless you get really unlucky
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Re: DK blood dps

Postby Levantine » Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:46 pm

Shoju wrote:
Levantine wrote:Builds are both the same except for utility talents, really. He's taken 3/3 Bloodworms and 1/2 IBP over Rune Tap and Vampiric Blood. Bloodworms are such a minuscule DPS increase that Blood Tap might well be worth it if he goes splat every now and then.

You're right about the ArP thing, you really want to be flirting with the soft cap at the very very least to even attempt Blood. Otherwise it just falls further and further behind the other two specs.

Teeny nitpick: As far as I know, you friend would be better served by swapping Metas to Agi/Crit, using one Nightmare tear to activate and swapping the other Puissant to a Fractured. I doubt it'd be a big increase, but I'm 99% sure it would work out to be one.

Actually, it's probably a wash if the DK agi -> Crit ratio is as bad as I seem to remember it being. (It's 21 crit vs. 31 agi and 6 str)


I asked him about the meta, and he said that it was pretty close to a wash, and since the guild he joined is now working on some of the harder hard modes, he felt 'more comfortable' going with a few dps less (I want to say it was..... <20dps?) to have a little more health for some of the raid damage.


Aye, makes sense. I tend to ignore stamina when it comes to dps but it makes sense since it really is such a small difference between the two in this case.
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Re: DK blood dps

Postby Brute » Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:35 am

I have a quel'delar and i'm not likely to find anything better. I.e., nighttime is probably the highest damage 1h'er i can get.

Should I be blood or frost? I usually tank but sometimes if i'm feeling spunky i'll DPS. I have dual spec.
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Re: DK blood dps

Postby blakk » Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:05 pm

Brute wrote:I have a quel'delar and i'm not likely to find anything better. I.e., nighttime is probably the highest damage 1h'er i can get.

Should I be blood or frost? I usually tank but sometimes if i'm feeling spunky i'll DPS. I have dual spec.

play whichever you enjoy more. since you're not a mainspec dps you probably won't be dpsing anything that's progression where you may have to push your dps anyway so play what you're comfortable with.
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Re: DK blood dps

Postby Kelaan » Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:11 pm

Brute wrote:Should I be blood or frost? I usually tank but sometimes if i'm feeling spunky i'll DPS. I have dual spec.

Is there a particular reason you don't want to DPS as Unholy? From what I've read, it's still top dog. Also, if you run in a 10s group, it might let you be the only source of Ebon Plaguebringer, which your casters may love.
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Re: DK blood dps

Postby blakk » Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:33 am

Kelaan wrote:
Brute wrote:Should I be blood or frost? I usually tank but sometimes if i'm feeling spunky i'll DPS. I have dual spec.

Is there a particular reason you don't want to DPS as Unholy? From what I've read, it's still top dog. Also, if you run in a 10s group, it might let you be the only source of Ebon Plaguebringer, which your casters may love.

unholy sims lower than frost unless you have an amazing 2h and crappy 1h's
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Re: DK blood dps

Postby Kelaan » Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:53 am

blakk wrote:unholy sims lower than frost unless you have an amazing 2h and crappy 1h's

Interesting. At what level of gear does that happen? (My DK's not in T10 stuff yet, so I guess I'm just behind the times.)
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