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paladins.. worse healers for heroics?

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paladins.. worse healers for heroics?

Postby lckuok » Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:35 pm

iunno it very odd i teamed up with a 1600+ healing arena paladin for a heroic SP run for daily, normally with the gears that i have or even worse i can AoE tank the whole thing without saps or sheeps. the paladin, rogue and shadow priest were all in the same guild, and the mage from another one. i've done heroic SP numerous times and with healers touching the 1k mark.


Have any of you guys notice that all healing paladins tend to use FoL constantly and ignore to use HL?

i mean i know FoL is the most effective healing spell, but i believe it's the best in raid healing, but not as good when ur the main healer for a instance.
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Postby Dorvan » Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:48 pm

A good Holy Paladin knows when to use HL and when to use FoL. When I run heroics with guild Holy Paladins they usually toss a few HLs at the beginning of the pull and then switch over to FoL once an add or two is down and I'm not taking as much of a beating. Of course, it depends on the pull...but that's why I say they're good healers, they know how to make those judgment calls :)
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Postby Grimmal » Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:57 pm

To many Paladins insist on using FoL spam in Heroics when truth be told you do all to often have to spam HL instead. Admittedly I was one of them heading into my first heroic with my group wiping on the first pull because of it. I learned fast though.

I know that my Holy Paladin has about 1350 or so +heal and usually for the first 10 seconds of a fight that isn't being CCed I spam Holy Light and then as the groups get smaller I can switch to FoL and keep up easily.

For normal instances, I can spam FoL all day long and never have issues for the most part, especially if I have a Moonkin or Shadow Priest in group.

ps, I hate healing Heroics with her. I'm actually leveling up a Priest to play as my healer and plan on transfering her to another server as Prot to hang with friends.
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Postby Tunos » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:50 pm

I heal heroics fine (I'm normally holy). Worst healer is probably a resto druid.
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Postby Exodius » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:58 pm

FoL spam has it's places, but if your damage taken over time is more than that, you will die, it just takes a while.

If it's their first heroic as a healer, they are likely use to outgearing instances and basic raid healing (early Kara), where FoL is definitely the way to go. But...

A bad paladin healer gets upset that you can't tank while they are happy they have a full mana bar. :?

A good one will catch on and realise the value of HL. Sure, they lose mana efficiency, but the tank lives, which is a good thing. :D

Paladins don't have area heals or HoTs, so area damaging fights like the last two bosses of heroic SP can be tough on them, especially the last boss.

It's not impossible though, it's just a lot harder. :(
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Postby Ohmslaw » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:04 am

I love my holy paladin healer in Heroic Hellfire Citadels, Heroic Botanica, and any other heroic where there isn't a ton of Aoe damage from trash. Heroic Arc is pretty brutal with a holy pally. It can be done, but the DPS has to pay attention to their own health. For the ones that do poison type group damage, I usually try to spam cleanse in between my normal spell rotations so the pally can focus on keeping me healed.

I got off target for a second there, but holy pallys are completely viable for heroics. You also can't base their healing skill on their +healing numbers. I've run with some healers with over 1600 +healing that couldn't keep me breathing thru the trash on heroic Ramps. I've also run heroic Arc with a +1100 healing priest. Healing heroics completely a matter of stats. Some people just got good gear by throwing 1 kind of heal in a raid.
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Postby Andox » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:09 am

the holy palas in my guild heals very good, so holy palas is rly nice for heroics aswell
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Postby Stylaan » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:24 am

Undergeared Resto Druids and Holy Paladins make the worst heroic healers.

Every healer is good if they're appropriately equipped, every heroic is easy if they're outgearing it.
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Postby Makaijin » Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:52 am

Any decent healer (for all healing classes) should be able to switch to an appropriate HPS spell to match the incoming DPS. Obviously it's very hard to match it precisely, but should at least be able to match with as little overhealing as he can. No point in spamming your most efficient spell when the HPS isn't up to scratch. If you are dying and your healer has plenty of mana left then generally the healer isn't doing his/her job.
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Postby Exodius » Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:01 am

Makaijin wrote:Any decent healer (for all healing classes) should be able to switch to an appropriate HPS spell to match the incoming DPS. Obviously it's very hard to match it precisely, but should at least be able to match with as little overhealing as he can. No point in spamming your most efficient spell when the HPS isn't up to scratch. If you are dying and your healer has plenty of mana left then generally the healer isn't doing his/her job.


An alternative could be that the tank is bad. I've healed with my priest in heroics where there have been times when a tank just can't take the damage. If I'm at max hps healing and they die, then it could be the tanks problem.

That's not an absolute, but it's something to think about. If it's your first heroic and you have a solid healer that knows how to heal and adapts well, it is likely the tanks problem.

If you have run the heroic several times sucessfully, but the healer runs out, then it could be possible they don't have enough hps heals, or at least not enough of a mana pool / mp5 to sustain such healing.

But, we are assuming here that the tank should be up to scratch gear and experience wise, as that's likely to be the person writing on these forums. :D

Flash of light spam is pretty easy to spot and suggest alternatives too. Normally though it's not always so clear where a problem is. Sometimes it's the (lack of) dps that can be the cause of a wipe, but that can be very hard to spot indeed. :?
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Postby Mortehl » Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:07 am

Tunos wrote:I heal heroics fine (I'm normally holy). Worst healer is probably a resto druid.


lol


Resto druids absolutely own for heroic healing. I do 30 minute clears of almost every heroic and I almost exclusively use them or priests. HoT = the pwn when you're aoe tanking.
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Postby Stylaan » Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:14 am

Mortehl wrote:
Tunos wrote:I heal heroics fine (I'm normally holy). Worst healer is probably a resto druid.


lol


Resto druids absolutely own for heroic healing. I do 30 minute clears of almost every heroic and I almost exclusively use them or priests. HoT = the pwn when you're aoe tanking.


Depends on their gear level, they have the slowest (and fewest) spike heals in the game and heroics involve a lot of spike damage at lower gear levels.
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Postby Balls » Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:17 am

Ohmslaw wrote:Heroic Arc is pretty brutal with a holy pally. It can be done, but the DPS has to pay attention to their own health.


Really? After several wipes before we got the first Eye thingy, I gave up on them and when I was LF Healer for it in Heroic, I specifically said "No Pallies". I just refuse to get owned by the lack of aoe healing.
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Postby Corynthia » Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:48 pm

Exodius wrote:
Makaijin wrote:Any decent healer (for all healing classes) should be able to switch to an appropriate HPS spell to match the incoming DPS. Obviously it's very hard to match it precisely, but should at least be able to match with as little overhealing as he can. No point in spamming your most efficient spell when the HPS isn't up to scratch. If you are dying and your healer has plenty of mana left then generally the healer isn't doing his/her job.


An alternative could be that the tank is bad. I've healed with my priest in heroics where there have been times when a tank just can't take the damage. If I'm at max hps healing and they die, then it could be the tanks problem.


Tanks have to be able to soak some damage, definitely. A big concern early on is that a healer can't spam their highest HPS heals if the tank isn't capable of generating enough aggro to keep the mobs.

Many times, tanks take massive initial damage after they first pull, a healer struggles to keep them alive, and then heals stop because 3 mobs come running for the healer. Smart healers struggle to keep themselves alive, hoping the tank will pull the mobs of them in time. The bad ones sit and get pummeled and die waiting for a heal to finish casting on the main tank -.-

Even good healers/tanks can be the source of problems sometimes. Sometimes no one person is to blame. Strategy plays a big part, and it's possible that bad strategy caused whatever problems the group was having.
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Postby Sparti » Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:12 pm

Tunos wrote:I heal heroics fine (I'm normally holy). Worst healer is probably a resto druid.


i honestly prefer resto druids over holy paladins for heroics. Resto hots + healing touch can keep me alive through a lot. The real problem is when resto druids switch to treeform and will not come out of it for any reason.
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