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2 t-10 armor versus full set?

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2 t-10 armor versus full set?

Postby Galemicus » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:42 pm

I currently have 2 t-10 armor pieces, and I was wondering what to do next? I have seen some protection paladins with all 4 t-10's and others with just 2. I need to know what the advantages/disadvantages are to owning this gear either way.

Here is my armory link:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... =Galemicus

The items I'm considering are:

http://www.wowarmory.com/item-info.xml?i=50968 http://www.wowarmory.com/item-info.xml?i=50864
http://www.wowarmory.com/item-info.xml?i=50862

I can only choose 1 item from the list above. Some advice on this tough choice, would be much appreciated.
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Re: 2 t-10 armor versus full set?

Postby Treck » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:19 pm

IMO, 4set is just barely viable with 277 parts.
The BIS downgrade to 4set, is about 30sta loss.
IF you cannot get 264 tier parts, you should focus on 264 offsets that are a lot easier to obtain.
As i remember it, the 5 pieces your looking for should be T10 head and shoulders, 264 badge chest and gloves, and crafted Legs.
3x heavy armor parts that are gonna be hard to replace.
And 2x T10, basicly since those are easy to obtain and wont be replaced to easy.
Theres a pair of shoulders in the blood wing that might be on par with tier, and theres the onyxia head that is pretty much the same if not even superior to 251 t10 head. But then you get the setbonus, and the 2set counts for something.
4set is not that strong, esp not before 25man hardmodes, since bosses dont hit that hard to notice the dodge differance (for some bosses, while not 100% dependable, its good to increase the odds of avoiding a big attack).

Looking at your particular case, id prolly say upgrade the chest to 264 offset part first, and in time get the head and replace your gloves with the 264 offset.
Id also recomend no 10stat gem or enchant, and get gems with atleast some sta aswell on them. Its ok going for socketbonuses, but atleast take partially blue gems ^^
And expertise is really not that usefull on gems :P
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Re: 2 t-10 armor versus full set?

Postby Galemicus » Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:50 pm

Ok, the advice is sound, but what about the loss of parry and dodge? If I put all stam gems in the 264 cataclysm chest, my dodge drops to 24.86% and my parry drops to 20.52%. Any thoughts on how to increase stam, and stay near the caps for dodge and parry?
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Re: 2 t-10 armor versus full set?

Postby Treck » Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:56 pm

Galemicus wrote:Ok, the advice is sound, but what about the loss of parry and dodge? If I put all stam gems in the 264 cataclysm chest, my dodge drops to 24.86% and my parry drops to 20.52%. Any thoughts on how to increase stam, and stay near the caps for dodge and parry?

Don't bother about your parry and dodge really, you will get what you need by gear.
Theres hardly a cap for dodge and parry, and you should really not bother about what the numbers are, the better gear, the more basicly.
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Re: 2 t-10 armor versus full set?

Postby Belloc » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:26 pm

I can't quantify it, but I know that I love having my 4pc bonus on fights where cooldowns really shine. I use my 4pc when bone storm ends and healers may be catching up, festergut during the obvious portions, enraged Saurfang, tanking two princes while keleseth is empowered, Blood Queen whenever I can (it helps the OT!) etc.

It's a good bonus, for sure.
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Re: 2 t-10 armor versus full set?

Postby Vrimmel » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:32 pm

At ilvl 277 the tier chest, gloves and head are BiS regardless.

At ilvl 264 only the head is BiS, but if your guild has a kingslayer25 or your server is like mine where most pugs will have a kingslayer for gunship 25 giving the possibility of heroic boneguard commander's pauldrons, you should go for helm + gloves for the 2-piece bonus.
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Re: 2 t-10 armor versus full set?

Postby Treck » Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:35 pm

Belloc wrote:I can't quantify it, but I know that I love having my 4pc bonus on fights where cooldowns really shine. I use my 4pc when bone storm ends and healers may be catching up, festergut during the obvious portions, enraged Saurfang, tanking two princes while keleseth is empowered, Blood Queen whenever I can (it helps the OT!) etc.

It's a good bonus, for sure.

Id stretch as far as saying its usefull, calling it "good" im not sure about, doing something at those points is obviously better than doing nothing :P.
You might think those 12% actually did somthing, and sometimes they do, sometimes they dont.
Its obviously great increasing the odds of avoiding, but chances are your still gonna take a lot of damage, and healers wont notice if you have that up or not tbh.
It is however nice sometimes when you just cant do anything else, you atleast have divine plea to make you think your helping your healers more than you are actually doing.
If the loss between 4set and not were a bit more than just 30sta, id prolly not care for the setbonus at all.

Besides, at the state of beginning ICC, your last concern are those kind of CDs, you need to focus on beeing reliable to heal. That means more hp and armor.
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Re: 2 t-10 armor versus full set?

Postby pfunkmort » Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:49 am

honestly, the 277 tier helm gets like...avoidance, ~45 str and like 5 stam, iirc over the HLD helm. But if you're concerned about hit, you can cap with that and get a lot more EH from other pieces instead of using the +hit equivalent in other slots. From a threat perspective, yes, it's bis...but, but, but.
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Re: 2 t-10 armor versus full set?

Postby Treck » Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:10 am

Noone should be concerned about hit imo.
I regulary run with 124 hitrating, and thats plenty.
Every time someone asks me how much hit you need as prot, i tell them the same thing: Somewhere between 0% and 8%.
At the start of the fight, even with 8% hit, you want to get tricks or MD to let everyone go all out at the start.
But if you have 0% hit, the same will be applied, and as long as you do it right, you will not need anotherone eather.
I dont know the exact differance in threat generated between having 0 and 8% hit, while noticable i dont really think it matters to much.
T10 277 Gloves and chest is BiS, theres no reason not to have those. And i see the t10head as BiS over HLD head, since the hitrating isnt that usefull imo.
And if your not getting the 4set, your best option is getting the shoulders from Gunship.
That "tradeup" gives you 14 stamina and 85 hitrating, and youre loosing the setbonus. I dont beleave its worth it.
ID much rather be a lowtps tank that needed a lot of tricks/MD to keep threat above the rest, as long as i could really take a beating before i go down, than beeing a tps god that dies all the time.
Your threat matters ofc, but your survival is more important.
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Re: 2 t-10 armor versus full set?

Postby Kihra » Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:42 pm

Treck wrote:Noone should be concerned about hit imo.
I regulary run with 124 hitrating, and thats plenty.


Hit isn't just a threat stat. It also affects Vindication uptime significantly enough that I would not recommend running with really low values (and I personally make sure to be Hit capped always). I believe after the changes to our class when Bryntroll, etc., was overpowered, that Vindication uptime is now more negatively affected by Hit than it was in say ToC.

On the H LK fight, I just do so much taunting also (and all those adds are lvl 83), and I just can't afford to have taunts miss. I have to taunt Raging Spirits, Shamblers, Valks, etc., and I just can't risk a missed taunt on that fight.

This is why I run with 2pc T10 and the LDW helm. It is the smallest loss in physical EH at the 277 ilvl that still keeps you hit capped. If I equipped the 277 T10 helm for 3pc, then I would have to make up the hit loss in another slot like the neck or legs, and I lose way more EH doing that than just equipping the LDW helm.

I don't find the 4pc T10 bonus to be worth going for, but I respect that others want to use it.
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Re: 2 t-10 armor versus full set?

Postby Treck » Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:48 pm

Kihra wrote:Hit isn't just a threat stat. It also affects Vindication uptime significantly enough that I would not recommend running with really low values (and I personally make sure to be Hit capped always).

As long as your actually hitting the boss, having 8% or 0% hit should not affect the uptime of vindication in a noticable manner.
Also, i dont have Vindication in my primary tankspec, so i dont have to worry about it anyway.

Kihra wrote:On the H LK fight, I just do so much taunting also (and all those adds are lvl 83), and I just can't afford to have taunts miss. I have to taunt Raging Spirits, Shamblers, Valks, etc., and I just can't risk a missed taunt on that fight.

A missed taunt on that fight honestly doesnt mean that much.
Ragings, sure you wanna start of by taunting them, but you should be getting ToTT to let dps go all out from the start, a missed taunt will 9/10 times go by unnoticed, and for those 1/10 times, you got a second taunt that is ONLY wasted if it works, whenever a raging spirit spawns, i use HoR before it activates, then i spamm RD untill he sits on me.
Shamblings are pretty much the same deal, you can use HoR before its activated, and if it should miss or someone would to overaggro, you can spamm RD untill he is looking at you again.
Not to mention that you can cast AS (even exorsism) to make sure that even if some dpser would be hitting it with some attacks, you maintain aggro on it.
And Valks are hardly a matter of "TAUNT IT ASAP OTHERWISE WE WIPE!".
IF you have locks getting grabbed, that means they are not gonna be dps'd, so nomatter what you do really healers will be taking its attention nomatter how many taunts you throw at it.
For the others, you have RD and it is pretty braindead to get valks to target you each 8 sec, you can taunt valks from 5-6 different people before the next wave anyway.
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Re: 2 t-10 armor versus full set?

Postby Kihra » Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:03 pm

Treck wrote:
Kihra wrote:Hit isn't just a threat stat. It also affects Vindication uptime significantly enough that I would not recommend running with really low values (and I personally make sure to be Hit capped always).

As long as your actually hitting the boss, having 8% or 0% hit should not affect the uptime of vindication in a noticable manner.
Also, i dont have Vindication in my primary tankspec, so i dont have to worry about it anyway.


Yeah if someone else is covering the AP debuff, I'd worry about Hit Rating less, but that's not the case for me. Here's a graph showing how Hit Rating affects Vindication uptime (Theck tested with a tanking weapon I believe).

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... 15#p547233

And you're right that it's not a huge deal. It's about a 4% difference as you slide from 0 up to 230 Hit Rating.

Being melee hit capped, though, when Vindication falls off, I can use Avenger's Shield to put the debuff back up and know for sure that it won't miss. I also like being able to open with Avenger's Shield and have it be a guaranteed hit and thus be guaranteed to proc Vindication on the mob I'm tanking right at the start of the fight (before he has even hit me).

Treck wrote:
Kihra wrote:On the H LK fight, I just do so much taunting also (and all those adds are lvl 83), and I just can't afford to have taunts miss. I have to taunt Raging Spirits, Shamblers, Valks, etc., and I just can't risk a missed taunt on that fight.

A missed taunt on that fight honestly doesnt mean that much.


It depends on your strat in P1 I guess. I agree that a missed taunt on Ragings or Valks isn't going to cause any wipes, but we use the strat of having a DK DPS hold the ghouls while I take the shamblers. Sometimes the shambler spawns in the DK's AOE and a missed taunt there to pick up the shambler can be really bad.

But my most important reason for not using T10 4pc is that I can't get four tokens anyway! Our guild is half paladins, priests and warlocks, and the # of people I'm competing with is ridiculous. Even if I wanted more than two, I couldn't win them anyway. :)
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Re: 2 t-10 armor versus full set?

Postby Treck » Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:45 pm

Kihra wrote:Being melee hit capped, though, when Vindication falls off, I can use Avenger's Shield to put the debuff back up and know for sure that it won't miss. I also like being able to open with Avenger's Shield and have it be a guaranteed hit and thus be guaranteed to proc Vindication on the mob I'm tanking right at the start of the fight (before he has even hit me).

Aww, but missing Avenger's Shield is one of the most awesome things you can do!, since then it "misses" and fly off in the distance, to suddenly come back and strike the other targets :P
But while Avenger's Shield will do that perfectly, id be more concerned about getting the 20% reduced attackspeed up asap, and that just depends on what distance the boss starts at from you (if you can do both before your rotation or not).

Kihra wrote:It depends on your strat in P1 I guess. I agree that a missed taunt on Ragings or Valks isn't going to cause any wipes, but we use the strat of having a DK DPS hold the ghouls while I take the shamblers. Sometimes the shambler spawns in the DK's AOE and a missed taunt there to pick up the shambler can be really bad.

You should be able to run into the DKs aoe (atleast for the first shambling) and hammer/shield it to get it on you.
As for the 2nd shambling, as long as you make sure you wait untill after its casting shockwave, you can move it however you would like ^^
But tbh, having 2 short CD taunts (unlike other classes) makes up for not having to bother about a single miss on a taunt, having a miss on both at the same time, now thats BAD luck :P.
Kihra wrote:But my most important reason for not using T10 4pc is that I can't get four tokens anyway! Our guild is half paladins, priests and warlocks, and the # of people I'm competing with is ridiculous. Even if I wanted more than two, I couldn't win them anyway. :)

This is very true and most likely very common for people out there.
I was lucky having tankprio on the tokens, and that were were doing 4out of 5 bosses who dropped tokens each week.
Getting the offset parts is much easier than 4x tokens, and since the differance isnt that huge, your other pallys/warlocks/priests will be happy your not competing against them for the tokens :P
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Re: 2 t-10 armor versus full set?

Postby guillex » Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:14 pm

Don't you think this should be in the Gear forum?

Give me one super-duper-amazing-fun-sexytime reason that I should leave it in this forum, and I will. Oh, and "because the forum is T10, and I'm asking about T10 gear" doesn't count.
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Re: 2 t-10 armor versus full set?

Postby Treck » Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:23 am

Theres no reason this should be in the ICC section of the forum, and i dont think anyone is gonna argue.
OP just didnt know where to post it i guess.
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